Wind turbine in a school playground

[Shirley]

This does sound like a lot of money just to run a few lights... I thought Martin might have some comments.

http://www.thisisnorthscotland.co.uk/di ... eId=149221

RESIDENTS HIT OUT AT SCHOOL TURBINE PLAN

KIRSTY URQUHART

08:50 - 14 August 2006
Residents have hit out against a green-minded school for its plans to erect a 60ft wind turbine in the playground.

Milltimber Primary School wants to spend £45,000 on the electricity generator to increase its environmental friendliness.

The school recently achieved "green flag" status through the EcoSchools project for excellent environmental friendly standards and the turbine is part of the next stage of their goal.

The turbine - one of the first of it's kind in Scotland - is to be situated in the playing fields behind the school and will be capable of powering some of the school lights.

But Binghill Crescent resident Steve Geddes is opposed to the plan and has delivered letters to residents urging the school to rethink it.

"It will dwarf pretty much everything and will stick out like a sore thumb in the middle of the field.

"It's going to have a big visual impact and I think that has to be looked at. Residents are objecting to the siting of it and the noise pollution."

The turbine will be the height of four double decker buses and capable of producing five kilowatts of energy. It is expected to take 15 to 20 years to start paying for itself.

Trevor Longstaff, who also lives in Binghill Crescent, added: "We don't want a row with the school, we just want them to consider the community. I think it's important that whatever they choose takes into account the environment that it's in."

Both men say they are all in favour of green energy but feel the school has not chosen the best method of demonstrating this.

Binghill Park resident Jacquie Ashcroft, who lives three doors away from the school, agrees.

"They are saying it's supposed to be a quiet one but you are talking about putting it right in the middle of a residential area - it doesn't matter how quiet it is, its still going to be noisy," she said.

"What concerns me is the size of it - 60ft is quite high. It's going to take up a lot of play area. I think the school can do a lot better with £45,000 than build a wind turbine."

The school is able to bypass the normal planning application process because the turbine is considered a "permitted development" under planning law.

The option of placing a small turbine on the roof, capable of producing half the energy of the big one, and at less than half the cost, is also believed to have been turned down.

A spokeswoman for Aberdeen City Council said the aim of the turbine is to reduce reliance on fossil fuels, reduce CO2 emissions and to educate the pupils in the use of renewables and that it could be used to power some of the school lights.

She said the local authority had received complaints about the proposal and that they would reconsider the plans.

"Discussions have been held with local people and all their comments - which include issues about the height - are being taken into consideration. Nothing is set in stone so they will go back to them for further discussions before proceeding with the project."

Councillor Matthew Duncan said he had not had any complaints about the plans as yet.

[Martin]

where to start?
Firstly, I will admit to being rather besotted with wind turbines - perhaps I'm caught up in the romance of a simple mechanical device harnessing the wild horses of the wind!
I grew up amongst the south downs - I walked over them as a kid with my parents - and whenever I've been away from home, the sight of them warms my heart as I near home - I can see a little bit of them from my window here - I would be very happy to see my old friends sporting some turbines - if they are part of the solution which will enable more generations to enoy this planet, then it's a "price" worth paying!
I think they are beautiful, and no more "offensive" than the old windmills were - compare them for aesthetics with electricity pylons........ 8)
What does worry me is that present mounting methods call for enormous amounts of concrete, which IS an eco-disaster, I'm hoping better methods become widely used soon. We can now offer a much more eco-friendly solution, so far for the smaller turbines only - we use an innovative "ground-screw" that enables us to mount a small turbine with no concrete whatsoever - at the end of it's life, or when you move, you can just "unscrew" it!
As to this particular turbine, it sounds like a 5kw Proven to me - the price looks around the normal ripoff rate for installation. Proven is a great company, making excellent equipment, but they are rather pricey! (for that sort of money, we could install at least a 20kw turbine, AND the mains inverters!)
I'm afraid I'm beginning to lose patience with nimbies - get a life! - a little lack of "visual amenity" is a miniscule price to pay for doing something to help save our home - the planet!
ps, at least they had the sense to dismiss the "chocolate teapot" option -
ROOF MOUNTED TURBINES CANNOT DO WHAT THEY SAY ON THE TIN!

[Shirley]

Ahhh thanks for that then Martin.... we would LOVE one here but that sort of price is WAY out of our league at the moment... and no doubt we would have to have planning permission too.

I love wind turbines - I get all excited when I see them... if I've got the camera with me, out it comes! Mind you, I rather like the look of pylons too.. and I've taken many a picture of them.

The turbine that you mention with the 'ground screw' - what sort of price is that and would it be suitable for an exposed plot.

My neighbours are getting solar panels - they are costing them £4500 but they have got a grant which pays about a quarter of that... a good start.. but still out of our price range.

I saw the roof-mounted bit and remembered that you said they were no good :)

[Martin]

tries best not to don salesman's hat!
We're much more "grass roots" than the sort of companies who tender for such jobs, and we're trying really hard to make the technologies affordable, and are very happy to encourage do-it-yourself!
The "Wren", the first to come from Samrey is a "tiddler" - it should give about 1kw hour per day in a reasonably good spot - around a tenth of the average UK daily household consumption - we took it to the BGG to charge our caravan batteries, which it did, with loads of power to spare! At the moment, it's been erected in my back garden, and will be used to power my shed and workshop. "Wrens" are available from us for just over £500, complete with mast kit and delivery - all you need to add are a controller (about £100, a scaffold pole - £20, and some batteries - £100-200) - about £800 all-in, and fit it yourself - takes about 5 minutes to put up using the "terralocks" that come with the kit! 8)
These are early days for the range - around December, the Mistral comes out - 600w -(around a third of the average daily consumption), and next year, the Merlin, a full 2.5 kw, for around £1600!......
In the meantime, we can offer the excellent value for money Navitron range, from as little as £300 for a 200w turbine complete with mountings, controls and inverter! They are good, solid (over-engineered) beasts from China that are very reliable!

[Martin]

nearly forgot - in an "exposed" spot the little Wrens really come into their own - they've been trying to break them prior to release..........part of which was sending them to the Pineridge company testing grounds in Montana, which has some fearsome winds - I asked the designer why they didn't "furl" (turn away from a high wind), and if we should "drop the tower" prior to heavy winds -he laughed his head off, and said "they regularly enjoy 60mph plus winds for 36 hours at a stretch in Montana" - no need for either!
I would also add that Pineridge were SO impressed with this funky little British turbine, that they will also be manufacturing it under licence in the US of A, where it has already been branded the "Air-X killer"

[Camile]

Hi Martin,

I'm sure some other people will be interested so I post this here rather than in a PM.

This WREN sounds marvellous ..

And I have to bring power into my shed because we only have an old lighting system in there .. but I wouldn't trust it with a power socket .. it would burn the thing down ..

I checked that website for Ireland: http://www.wowenergy.ie/wind-wave-energy.htm

And they seem fairly expensive compare to your price ..

Would you be able to ship to Ireland ?

Could you run something that consumes 250W for let say 12-18 hours or more per day ? that would include lighting for the brooder and so on ..

And would I still be able to run the drill and other power tools from it when needed ?

Because I don't quite understand the "1kw hour per day" ..

I'm looking into the wind power because we have plenty of it in Ireland .. especially in the west like I am ...

Thanks,
Camile

[Martin]

enthuse???? - me?????

[Martin]

we can send them anywhere - we'd have to find the price for shipping, but they're not enormous to send (the pole you can source locally) 8)
I'll try to make some sense of "what'll she do?" - I hope!
If she generates Ikw hour in a day, that equates to roughly 40 watts an hour - in other words, if you had a load of 40 watts burning, that would take all the power you are generating (one small lightbulb, or two energy savers). That is a simple way to work out roughly what you have to use. So if for instance I were powering my shed, and had a couple of energy saving bulbs running for 5 hours a day, that would be 200w - then if I run a soldering iron at 30w for two hours, that's another 60 watts - 740 left - I could run a small (15-20w) heated incubator for 24 hours, and still have some left over!
Obviously, these are just an example, and very much based on "averages" - with a small turbine like this, probably the easiest way to go is to have a small battery bank and an inverter - then do your sums right, and aim to use slightly less than you're generating! 8)
Probably you'd need something a little bigger to make a real inroad in your consumption, but the Wren's a really good place to start - perhaps power some outbuildings with it, or take it camping - get used to it, and perhaps later add a larger turbine - because they're so "moveable" you can also experiment with finding the best spot on your land!

[Martin]

a quick sum on your brooder says that's 3kw hrs/day - (quite a lot! - about a third of the average daily home consumption of electricity) - you'd really need something like the Merlin, just to feed the power that it takes! 8)

[PurpleDragon]

We are very near to Boyndie Windfarm and we all (as a family) love driving past it. We've yet to go to the visitor centre. Personally, I think the big ones are majestic. They can people the hills with them as far as I'm concerned.

We have been looking into getting one for here. ike Shirley, we can't afford one just yet but one day ...

I was looking at the INEBG site last night, and they have a link to a place that sells them very reasonably. I'm afraid wattages and stuff leave me glassy-eyed - I have no idea what they're on about! - but the wind levels up here are so strong and almost continual and every time I go outside, I could cry because we are just letting all that wind get away, and using grid and oil to heat and light our house. Bonkers!

[Shirley]

Thanks Martin... and love the pic of the Wren with the moon....

We've got electricity pylons in part of our garden... I imagine that would cause a problem - I doubt we could get them to move them for us.

Ideally we would like something that would be able to provide us with enough power to make a difference, and to help us out if there should be a powercut... enough for the essentials... water (our water is on a pump from the well), freezer... a couple of lights... and the computer!! We were going to buy a generator for those times... but the wind turbine is a good option.

Very excited... but still very skint... so it's not going to happen too quickly - are there grants available? (have a feeling that question will cause some heated discussion)

[Camile]

Cool ..

Thanks for that Martin .. I understand now the kW hour per day ...

And the wren would provide 1kw hr per day, and that is without battery bank isn't it ?

So if we had batteries we could actually get more than that ? or am I missing something ?

and is there a way to bypass the batteries once they are topped up ? ie get it straight out of the inverter ? with an automatic switch or something ?

would that make any sense ? and will it have any advantages ?

because we recently had planning permission to extend our very small cottage ... and I am starting to look for wind and solar power ..
Wind for electricity and solar for heating water (if that makes any sens), in conjunction with the turf fire for the water ...

I know there are grants available in Ireland .... and we have the money from the bank for the extension .. and harvesting the wind is so great .. and there is so much of it around here that it makes sense for us to harvest it ..

CAmile

[Martin]

GRANTS!!!!!!!!! -(where's the spittoon!)
Well, I reckon they're a joke, force the prices up, and give jobs to the unemployable.............
If you would like a grant, expect to pay around TWICE as much overall, as you'd spend with us sticking two churchillian fingers in the air to them!
Having said that, Ivan, of Navitron, who's chinese turbines we sell is going to try to get his "£300 cheapo" on the list - that'll be a laugh, a £400 grant for something costing £300, and £600 to implement the grant!

[Martin]

you need the battery bank, for the simple reason that the wind doesn't blow to order!
There's two ways of implementing a battery bank - you can feed it through a charge controller, which makes sure the batteries are fully charged using sophisticated regimes, and when they're full, burns the excess power off using it's power transistors, or you just feed it direct into the battery bank, and have a "dump load controller", which literally switches a hefty load into the circuit when the batteries are full - often a simple heating element, or in the case of some crafty farmers, a 12v immersion heater in a cattle trough to stop it freezing in winter!

[Martin]

and solar hot water heating is a MUST - go to the Navitron website - find the forum, and ask for an Irish installer (tell them Martin sent you!)