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They've found that turkey that died on a farm in Suffolk was infected with the H5N1 flu virus.

They're going to cull the lot of them.

I'm not sure about all this culling, it seems a little unneccesary. Can anyone furnish me with facts either way please?

Ta

it would be intriguing to find out HOW they caught it! - in a sealed factory-farm environment!
"Culling" has a long and disturbing history, culminating in the suicides of several farmers after the widespread carnage wreaked on English dairy farms during the most recent foot and mouth outbreak. I am advised by a homoeopathic vet that all of those culls were totally unnecessary - I don't know whether the same would apply to bird flu.

one of those nice ethical companies............http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/4940366.stm

Martin wrote:it would be intriguing to find out HOW they caught it! - in a sealed factory-farm environment!

The "theory" is that a wild bird got in through a vent. Sure. Right.

Amazing coincidence that this happens to the most famous poultry producer in the country.

"Vets were called to the Bernard Matthews farm in Holton on Thursday night. "

"The first deaths happened on Tuesday 30 January when 71 chicks died, said Defra.

A further 186 died the following day and 860 died on 1 February.

Some 1,500 died on Thursday, making a total of 2,617. "

Note how those two bits of info are kept apart in the BBC article.

i read that story.
Surely just isolating the birds from that particular farm would help, rather than killing the thousands of birds that could be healthy.

The virologist in the article also said that the virus could be killed by using detergents - are they suggesting that the farm has questionable cleaning practices? I would say they are.

Are there any tests that can determine whether a bird is healthy? Would this be viable on such a large scale?

Martin: the Foot and mouth was what i was thinking of, i know i read somewhere (probably here actually) that some vets were condemning such widespread culling to 'save more animals' and saying that it could have all been avoided if panic had not set in.

And, if they're all chicks, then how much of that is down to a lack of natural immunity at that age? From what i understand having budgies (i know they're a different type of bird) anything can kill chicks, they are not the strongest of young animals.

eeek! i hadn't read that article, i read the one about the virus!

Have just heard about this here - thoughts of that terrible time you all had with F and M were going through my head too. Any talk of other poultry being affected? Or having to be culled?

For me, this highlights the danger of intensive farming on such a scale. 22 poultry huts- sealed units with no access to the outside, I wish the Great British public would open their eyes and stop buying the produce of such intensive methods. How can you monitor individuals health when there are thousands in the same hut in close proximity?

Kind thougths
Deb

What I can't understand is all the TV companies piling in and filming the affected flock. Then rushing off to the nearest free-range poultry keeper and filming there.

They seem to have stopped now that the barriers have gone up but it seems a bit irresponsible and it's bound to add to the risk of transmitting the infection. They were doing it all the time during foot and mouth. You can't guarantee to disinfect every piece of equipment 100% every time.

The USDA is trying to set up a national database called NAIS (National Animal Identification System). All livestock, poultry, horse, lama, goats, etc. will be somehow tagged by transmitter or something to regulate and track where every animal goes, even farm shows, any time an animal leaves your property to comes on it must be reported. Supposedly this will be able to track what animal a certain disease may have come from and where they have been in the "food chain."

Most small farmers or just folk with a couple chickens are going to be severly affected, as fines are rediculous for noncompliance. It is not mandatory right now, unless enough people don't sign up for the voluntary part of it. Then it will go mandatory by govt. watchdogs. Somehow it seems that the big companies aren't regulated near as severely as the small guys. Hm....smell something foul?

I cannot possibly see this as doing anything more than lining another govt. buracracy's pockets. Is there anything like this in the UK? If so is it effective? We don't seem to have as much freedom in producing our own backyard birds and goats as you do. I cannot have livestock of any kind and I have 3 acres and live behind a chicken farm. Seems a bit foolish. I very much fear this NAIS will cripple small farms here.

So people with one or two chickens in their gardens are likely to be affected?
Even if they keep their runs and coops clean?

haven't found out anything about the viability of testing birds before culling them yet...anyone got any feelings on this?

I do agree that it does show up a fault in the factory farming process. I also think that factory farming on that kind of scale should be banned anyway - i like to know that any animal i eat has had a nice life first (i get turkeys from a local supplier - they're free range in a field and you can see they've got plenty of space...especially when the odd one escapes and sits on the fence giving the farmer the 'yea? come and get me' look!).

Hopefully, the one positive to come out of this mess will be that the public might become more aware of factory conditions and there'll be a backlash. unfortunately, there'll also be an obvious price rise on the products.

I was talking to someone last night about it, and after a few drinks, we came up with the mother nature theory - She's finally had enough of treating her animals badly, so she's going to wipe out a few to make a point. This is something that seems to happen quite regularly, especially in intensive farming situations, be it with fields full of disease because they've been over-farmes, or animals that succumb to disease because they are kept badly.

Yep, 1 or 100, makes no difference, they have to be tracked. Lots of people will be getting rid of pets or small flocks becuase it will be to expensive to keep them in the system.

We have zoning restrictions that we cannot keep livestock in most neighborhoods anyway. Are their restrictions like that there? Seems alot of you on this site have some livestock, chooks.

I worry that the big corporations will be our only option for meats, eggs, etc. becuase of all the restrictions. We will have no choice but to buy cruelly raised animals from dirty lots with God knows what diseases. Added to the antibiotics and genetic tampering that goes on already.