State funeral for Thatcher?

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pogostemon
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Re: State funeral for Thatcher?

Post: # 115269Post pogostemon »

Bluemoon wrote:For a wonderful minute I thought this meant she was dead. Yes, lets give her a state funeral, preferably with an open coffin that we can file past then; a) we can be certain she's really dead and b) know where she's buried so can visit at a later date.....wearing tap-shoes :mrgreen:
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Re: State funeral for Thatcher?

Post: # 115302Post urbanwookie »

Naturally there should be no honours for socio-economic criminals like her but that won't stop them. I'm reminded of a card I once saw to mark the death of Winston Churchill which showed two miners arm-in-arm dancing a jig! How you see things depends entirely on where you're standing...

My only worry is that they bury her in a niche halfway up a wall in Westminster Abbey...I've waited years to "spend a penny" on her grave (purely to water in the turves, you understand!) and this might complicate matters!

There's a standing arrangement for a party in Trafalgar Square at 6pm on the first Saturday after she finally shuffles off to the fiery place where the wee man with the pointy stick conducts his business. Her buddy Pinochet should be well roasted by the time she gets there...

rb

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Re: State funeral for Thatcher?

Post: # 115335Post marshlander »

Whatever your shade of politics, and I'm certainly not a fan, I don't think Mrs T should be honoured with a state funeral. Nor should any politician for that matter!

I would like to know why such a thing was proposed in the first place. She certainly does not top my list of the great and the good, not even the greatly loved.

I must admit, I did admire her for her achievements in the early years. As a young woman struggling to make my way in a mans world I thought she was inspirational.
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Re: State funeral for Thatcher?

Post: # 115384Post jim »

Dear DominicJ,

Is it accurate to describe those with different opinions as COMMUNISTS?

A malodourously unpleasant whiff of McCarthism seems to have entered the banter. What next? A witch hunt to cleanse the pages of the ISH forum of dissenting voices? There seems to be a dangerously authoritarian streak in certain rabid Thatchists.

If nothing else this thread shows how divisive the woman has been,

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Re: State funeral for Thatcher?

Post: # 115394Post Rod in Japan »

DomincJ makes a couple of elementary mistakes.

First of all, nobody here has actually celebrated the current dismal regime as a worthy alternative to Thatcherism, so that simple partisan viewpoint falls flat. Perhaps some of us think Bliar and his aptly named successor are just fantastic, but nobody has actually said so.

As for waiting 11 years for things to blow up in our faces, I seem to remember it was precisely because they blew up in our faces while Thatcher was in that we conceived our dislike for her.

I'm too young to remember much about who preceded her, but I'm sure they were awful too. Principled politicians do exist, but hardly anybody ever votes for them, either because they don't recognize principle, or they play the eternally pointless 'tactical voting' game, thereby destroying their own constituency.

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Re: State funeral for Thatcher?

Post: # 115400Post lsm1066 »

DominicJ wrote:You get used to it, after 11 years of incompetance starts blowing up in the communists faces they start attacking anyone they can.

So its the fault of a government that gained power 38 years ago that theres crime in the UK, not the fault of the current government, elected 11 years ago.

Its not the fault of the government that was elected 11 years ago that the poverty gap has increased over the past 11 years.
I must say, I find it amusing that government ministers are still blaming the previous government for the catalogue of disasters when they've had more than 10 years to do something about it. What we're currently experiencing in economic downturn is what we experience towards the end of every labour government that has ever been. The only difference is that this is the first labour government ever to get a second term in office because they stuck to tory policies for so long. Of course, you'd need to be old enough to remember things like the winter of discontent, the abolition of grammar schools (Shirley Williams even took her daughter out of private school and put her into a comprehensive so that she could get the education job for this) and the introduction of mandatory retirement at 60/65 (all under labour), so at least Jon Pertwee as The Doctor, to get this. You may remember the 3 day week, when Edward Heath (Conservative) refused to give in to the miners. Eventually he went to the country and asked, "who should be in charge?" and the country replied. "Not you mate".

And yet when Margaret Thatcher did the same, the answer was the opposite. Yes we had the poll tax riots, but why should a little old lady living alone and earning £2 a week too much from her teacher's pension to get benefits (my ex's mum to be exact) pay the same for council services as the house next door with 4 working adults in it? Yes we had the miners' strike, but it didn't really affect the country as a whole. I was working for an oil company at the time and banking cheques from the CEGB to the tune of £36 million per month. They just kept their power stations working with a different fuel. The Falklands was more about a point of principle than anything else. And like Golde Meyer before her, she had the war out of the way in a couple of weeks. And of course, it must have been massively unpopular, judging by the overall majority in the 1983 election.

My husband doesn't get it at all, being a toyboy of the Tom Baker generation. He'll be seeing you at the party in Trafalgar Square. I, on the other hand, will be raising a glass to a great stateswoman whom I started to support in 1970 when she was minister of education. There are things that are forgotten about her, like the fact that she saved the Open University from being abolished. But there's one thing we all remember. Who can forget, "Thatcher, Thatcher, milk snatcher". I always hated school milk and when she scrapped it (after labour had already scrapped it for secondary schools but who remembers that?), I vowed to vote conservative to my dying day.

So all hail Margaret Thatcher. I shall praise your name forever.

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Re: State funeral for Thatcher?

Post: # 115404Post MKG »

Hmmmm ... but I thought this thread was about whether a state funeral should be provided, not the merits or otherwise of Margaret Thatcher as a politician. With the exception of Winston Churchill (who got his more for his wartime leadership than his political ability, and Welsh miners would certainly have disagreed anyway), any state funeral for a politician is going to ignite partisan arguments - and that, for me, is a good enough reason not to allow the state funeral. In the case of Margaret Thatcher, I think it's already plain to see that she, of all politicians, is the one whose various antics are most likely to start a war of words. So why bother upsetting a large fraction of the population?

Bury her, by all means - but not with fanfares and glitz and certainly not at the expense of the public.
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Re: State funeral for Thatcher?

Post: # 115411Post Rod in Japan »

Yes, MKG, you're quite right about that. Waste of taxpayer money. Margaret Thatcher would never have stood for such frivolity. Cut, cut, and cut again! In this case, it's certainly a valid principle. I wonder when she'll speak up?

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Re: State funeral for Thatcher?

Post: # 115414Post DominicJ »

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but this website is called "self sufficient'ish" is it not?

What exactly was it Thatcher stood for if not self sufficiency? Or at the very least sufficiency without government subsidy.

You should note I said communists not Communists.

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Re: State funeral for Thatcher?

Post: # 115419Post MKG »

DominicJ wrote:Perhaps I'm mistaken, but this website is called "self sufficient'ish" is it not?

What exactly was it Thatcher stood for if not self sufficiency? Or at the very least sufficiency without government subsidy.
Absolutely. So why should anyone here contribute to her funeral?
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Re: State funeral for Thatcher?

Post: # 115440Post Millymollymandy »

Now didn't Princess Diana NOT have a state funeral? I know it looked like one but I can't actually remember whether it was or not. It's just that a royal (or ex royal) funeral is going to be a pretty big affair anyway.

No I don't believe she should have a state funeral, nor any politician now matter how great or wonderful they were. That should be kept purely for the Royals (the real ones). However I hope she has a jolly good big bash and wonderful send off and I for one will be watching it on the telly cos she was the very first person I ever voted for; in fact I was gutted that I was one month short of my 18th birthday when she was first voted in so I couldn't vote!

Not that I know what exactly a state funeral actually is? :? Presumably by your comments it means that the government pays for it rather than the family? But they aren't going to up your taxes just for the occasion are they? :?
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Re: State funeral for Thatcher?

Post: # 115445Post MKG »

Neither Diana nor Queensie Mumsy had state funerals - they had Ceremonial Funerals. Those are almost the same thing, except that a state funeral needs one extra ingredient - it has to be subject to a successful Parliamentary vote (for anyone other than the sovereign). Now, all of this political banter is highly amusing, but it won't be half as amusing as Gordon Brown trying to convince our dearly loved representatives that Maggie deserves such an honour.
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Re: State funeral for Thatcher?

Post: # 115447Post lsm1066 »

MKG wrote:Hmmmm ... but I thought this thread was about whether a state funeral should be provided, not the merits or otherwise of Margaret Thatcher as a politician.
Absolutely right. Apologies. As far as I'm aware, state funerals are supposed to be for heads of state. The only two exceptions have been Winston Churchill and Arthur Wellesley (the Duke of Wellington). Under those conditions, I can see no justification for a state funeral. Certainly she was the first woman to be leader of her party and the first woman to be prime minister, but using that as the criteria would mean that Lady Astor should have had a state funeral as the first woman in the house of commons. Didn't happen. Besides, I doubt Mrs Thatcher would approve of such profligacy.

Lynne

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Re: State funeral for Thatcher?

Post: # 115464Post ina »

marshlander wrote: I must admit, I did admire her for her achievements in the early years. As a young woman struggling to make my way in a mans world I thought she was inspirational.
I thought like that once - when I still thought any woman in a job like that had to be better than a man... Until I heard her rant about the lazy buggers of young women who can't get a job and family organised - after all, they only had to instruct their underlings - cleaner, nanny etc. to get it all done, order the butcher/grocer/whatever else to deliver the goods in time etc...

It was then I realised this woman lived on another planet from me.

And as to state funeral - no thanks. If there are enough folk who feel about her strongly enough, they can start a collection and pay the party out of that. Needless to say, I won't contribute; but if there ever should come the time for a collection for Nelson Mandela's send-off, I will.
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Re: State funeral for Thatcher?

Post: # 115512Post pumpy »

Remember the T.V. sitcoms "yes minister/prime minister"?? That's the way it was,is now, & always will be. The money-grabbing shite-hawks, who go under the collective name of M.P's. are only the mouth-pieces. Screaming Lord Sutch had the right idea..... it's all a massive joke,but,unfortunately,not a very funny one!!
it's either one or the other, or neither of the two.

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