Psychoactives used by other cultures are inappropriate?

[Teotzlcoatl]

I find it very disturbing that drugs like caffeine are acceptable to talk about but plants with such rich histories as Amanita muscaria and Lophophora williamsii are deemed "inappropriate".

Is it inappropriate to talk about other religions?

I am part Native American and it is highly offensive to me that my cultural traditions which myself, my family and my tribe hold very dear would be considered "inappropriate".

What is inappropriate is the condescending nature in which practitioners of entheogenic religions are treated.

This seems like a form of racism to me (tho it has nothing to do with race, but it seems along the same lines or "I'm better than you, or my race is better than yours, or my society does things the right way and yours doesn't").

Since Europeans arrived in the New World the Native Americans have been treated unfairly, their societies were deemed barbaric and backwards, I am sad to see that this continues to this day.

[Alice Abbott]

I don't find talk of either of these, commonly known as peyote (a type of cactus) and fly agaric (a type of toadstool) particularly offensive.

On the other hand I don't find them interesting as a subject for discussion either and I imagine a whole swathe of the population will agree with me. The first is a psychoactive alkaloid (as in mescaline) and the second can be a hallucinogenic. The majority of people would not encounter them, want to encounter them or need to encounter them in their day to day lives. Yes, these WERE used as medicines in Native American cultures but they are much more commonly used in things such as transcendental meditation these days, also many American jurisdictions specifically allow religious use of peyote by Native Americans. However, they in themselves are NOT a religion. Peyote is a controlled substance and native to Texas and to Mexico so probably not even widely known in Europe, which is where the majority of contributors to this site are based. I don't think there is any escaping the fact that fly agaric is poisonous and personally I would keep well away from it anyway.

I also have a part Native American background and I can't say I have ever encountered any form of racism or unfairness throughout my life. I'm not saying Native Americans didn't or don't encounter problems but I certainly have not.

[MKG]

[red]

took the words right out of my mouth...

[Teotzlcoatl]

Yes, Amanita muscaria can be semi-poisonous. I am mostly discussing it because it is 100% legal in all areas of the world and also has psychoactive effects.

[Graye]

Teotzlcoatl, I think the mods and other posters have been amazingly tolerant with you on another thead.

However I think you will have to accept that this is not the type of forum to discuss your opinions on psychoactive substances. This is a site where the common interest is varying forms of self-sufficiency ie nothing to do with the things you are trying to discuss. I would imagine 99.99% of the people using the site have zero interest in amanita muscaria (a poisonous and sometimes fatal toadstool) or lophophora williamsii (a banned substance in its dried form).

I'm sure there are other forums where you might get some sort of meaningful discussion going but I'm afraid you will find that this isn't it.

[Gem]

I was surprised to read this then looked at previous posts and understand what has spurred this a little more.

I am still confused. Are you comparing the polite advice of site admins to not discuss mood altering drugs on this site (which, repeating what they said, is about self sufficiency, not the sociological rights and wrongs of drug taking in religious context), to the various atrocities that have been perpetrated in the name of religious, social or racial goals?...

I agree with Mike that you could have some really interesting input into this site because you are clearly bright and well informed but please try and accept that whilst this specific topic is of great interest to you, it has little or nothing to do with this site and thus would be more appropriate elsewhere. If thats all you want to talk about then just go somewhere else and save yourself a lot of hassle.

However many of us are interested in the medicinal uses of herbs for common maladies, why not share some of your knowledge on this topic? A good for example here, I have tooth ache and it is a pain! A recent dental visit shows I have swollen gums. The horribly expensive over the counter gel they suggested doesn’t work. They don’t know whats causing it so short of being particularly careful not to brush too hard there is not a lot I can do. Can you help my gums???

Gem

[Millymollymandy]

I will just reiterate the final posting on the thread that was locked

http://www.selfsufficientish.com/forum/ ... 8&start=30

for anyone who wonders what on earth this thread is about.

As MKG says, it is about appropriateness. If someone posts a photo of your toadstool and says 'aren't they pretty?' or that they are going to make Xmas cards out of the photos, then that's perfectly Ish. Talking about consuming a poisonous fungus just because you might get a high from it (along with all the other nasty side effects) is not.

You've had long enough to look around the site and get the feel of it, and the Admin team and various members of this forum have given their views, which should make it perfectly clear to you what this site is all about.

The subject is now closed and this thread is locked.

As the subject is CLOSED I wonder why you are bringing it up again, unless you enjoy getting banned from forums? The admins of this site are busy enough without having to deal with trolls.

[MKG]

Ohhhhh! Now it looks like we're all ganging up on Teo - maybe partly my fault.

Teo, your obvious expertise on plants - and, as far as this site is concerned, particularly food and medicinal plants, would be most welcome. And I'm sure that we all appreciate that you have particular interests. God knows, I've bored enough people here with my eclecticism. But, as I've said before, the people here are more into tomatoes than magic mushrooms - it really is as simple as that. This is a sort of mutual comfort site, if you like, full of people who have made certain lifestyle decisions and possibly feel a little isolated because it's not quite the norm - they're looking for like-minded people. Here, we can talk about mundane things like preserving, planting, the seasons, whether this pumpkin is better than that one, if it's possible to build a polytunnel in the teeth of an Atlantic gale, and, in the appropriate section, even contentious issues like racism. I am an active contributor to the bit which is mainly about the manufacture of alcoholic drinks - but that's about people who want to save money by making their own beer or wine rather than an extolling of the virtues of alcohol. There's a slight difference.

I really do hope that you can appreciate that difference and so come to realise why your insistence on the discussion of psychoactive substances in general has elicited such a reaction. If you were in a subsistence situation, what would you grow? Food or psychoactives? That's the point.

Mike

[Teotzlcoatl]

I am an active contributor to the bit which is mainly about the manufacture of alcoholic drinks - but that's about people who want to save money by making their own beer or wine rather than an extolling of the virtues of alcohol. There's a slight difference.

This is what I'm talking about....

"My substance is better than yours, our culture knows what it's doing and yours doesn't"

That is the message I'm getting here.

If you can talk about the preparation of a legal psychoactive such as alcohol here, I should be able to discuss any legal psychoactive as well.

I just see this double standard everywhere, people sipping on vodka telling me how bad the plants I use are.

If you were in a subsistence situation, what would you grow? Food or psychoactives? That's the point.

Most of the plants I'm talking about are not JUST psychoactive.

Ayahuasca could be used to dispose of parasites in the stomach and intestines and Lophophora cacti can be used as an antibiotic.

All I want is people to realize how beneficial these plants can be, especially to the self-sufficent community.

I do apperciate y'all being nice to me, many people are VERY rude on other sites and tell me I'm a drug-crazed lunatic and such.

What I'd really like is a clear statement of the rules...

What I got at first was "keep it legal" which is totally understandable.... now I'm getting "only talk about culturally sanctioned psychoactives such as alcohol and caffeine"... that disappoints me....

Ohhhhh! Now it looks like we're all ganging up on Teo - maybe partly my fault.

I don't feel that way at all.

I just glad you allowed me to voice my opinion even if most of y'all disagree.

This seems like a great place!

I'll tone it down with the psychoactive talk... but until I get some very clear, sensible, logical rules I can't say I'll stop it all together.

Y'all could always ban me.... but then we would both be missing out! I hope that doesn't happen! I actually got a warning for this thread (I think)

[Millymollymandy]

Yes you did get a 2nd warning and as I, on behalf of the Self Sufficientish team have said, the subject is CLOSED. Please do not discuss this matter further on this site.