Flat Earthers

[dave45]

sorry - its the gambler in me - a 1 in 20 chance is a 19-1 shot in racing (rounded back to 20)
19/20 chance they're right = odds of 1 to 19 ("odds-on" or "19 to 1 on")
1/20 chance they are wrong = odds of 19 to 1

Would you accept a 1 in 20 chance of a medical treatment going wrong? I'd think most people would want far higher assurance.

And that's before you look into where they got the number from (its not an independently produced number).

That Akasofu guy has some strange ideas http://people.iarc.uaf.edu/~sakasofu/climate.php like the global warming meme being set up to promote nuclear energy... whoa!

[MKG]

Would you accept a 1 in 20 chance of a medical treatment going wrong? I'd think most people would want far higher assurance.

If I knew that the alternative was death, I certainly would. However, here's a bit more reading material from several heavyweights ...

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/short ... -6-de.html

Mike

[PeterNZ]

I actually don't care if it is man made or not. I gave up on proving it and throwing arguments around etc. Fact is we need to do something.

I am not sure if you ever came across Greg Craven? This is exactly what I am talking about: Check out his Youtube video here: http://www.youtube.com/user/wonderingmind42, mainly his The Most Terrifying Video You'll Ever See.

Cheers

Peter

[grahoom]

the problem I find when talking to people who are "deniers" is the general arrogance of humanity.

Now, it's not just climate change (which will happen even if humans are not on the planet - it's the natural cycle of the system) - but the actual destruction and ruination of the natural system itself that I find staggering that people can't understand or perceive. Surely people can see that our reliance on over the top consumerism and consumption of natural resources and natural environments will and does cause an affect on the system as a whole.

I think generally the media and discussions on "climate change" are far too simplistic - which falls into the hands of those who want to claim that humans are having no affect on the system (from now on I'll use Spaceship Earth to cover the meaning).

We as a species seem hell bent on destroying Spaceship Earth - Richard Buckminster Fuller as far back as the late 50's saw that we were heading for (taking a title of one of his books) Utopia or Oblivion - and it's up to each and everyone of us to decide which one we want to head to.

So, not only are there a variety of man made chemicals gases that are being released that WILL cause an affect on Spaceship Earth there are also

* Clouds formed from Condensation trails of aircrafts - which no doubt have some affect on the weather systems,
* Over fishing of the seas, which create a knock on affect to the eco System
* Chemicals allowed to flow into the water system
* Modification of land causing water systems to change course, causing an affect on the geographical system
* Deforestation and decline in biodiversity - which causes an affect
* A exponential increase in Population

The list goes on an on. And the main reasons for these activities occurring is that of Global Capitalism and the general infrastructure that allows profits to come before common sense.

So when people only focus on one tiny minor point (which at present is that of C02 and "carbon footprints") we lose focus on the fact that as humans each and everyone of of us are responsible for the way we conduct ourselves on this planet. After all the main emphasis on the global political side of this is that of carbon trading and using this whole mess as a means to generate more fictional "credit" and means for those who are in the place of "power" to gain in a materialistic sense and the rest (which I include the vast majority of humanity and the rest of the inhabitants of Spaceship Earth) are essentially expendable.

I found this book incredibly positive when I read it - Operating Manial for Spaceship Earth - By Richard Buckminster Fuller (there seems to be a web version here - http://www.futurehi.net/docs/OperatingManual.html)

Now there is one outstandingly important fact regarding Spaceship Earth, and that is that no instruction book came with it.

sorry for the rant...

[Big Al]

..... As I said... Bit simplistic i know but when I get up in the morning and it's cold I put a jumper on. If it's raining outside I put a waterproof on. If it's searingly hot I use it as an excuse not to do the housework....

When I die I'll be dust sprinkled from a hot air balloon over windermere by my son and wife. Until then I will try not to get too depressed about the possible future, which is the hard part considering my wife and I have a 20 yr old son....lol.

[MKG]

I actually don't care if it is man made or not. I gave up on proving it and throwing arguments around etc. Fact is we need to do something.

I am not sure if you ever came across Greg Craven? This is exactly what I am talking about: Check out his Youtube video here: http://www.youtube.com/user/wonderingmind42, mainly his The Most Terrifying Video You'll Ever See.

Cheers

Peter

That YouTube video is the most succinct article I've seen to date. It should be compulsory viewing.

Big Al - are you aware you've gone into Grounhog Day mode?

Mike

[dave45]

Greg Craven? try his little matrix again for the threat of a large asteroid strike (for example)... Don't you think we should start on the space defences right now?

[MKG]

Here you go, Dave.

http://www.congrex.nl/09c04/

... and if you Google around, you'll find loads more.

Mike