The Good Life is rubbish so shop in A5da.

[wulf]

I'm pretty sure that my bread comes in at less than supermarket cost. I haven't figured out exactly how much energy the oven uses so it is hard to put a figure on it but I can produce what would be sold as "artisan loaves" if you went to a fancy bread stall using just some oven time, flour, water, salt and yeast (and very minimal amounts of those last two). It takes a bit more time (at least, I have to be in for the few short bouts of interaction required between letting the yeast do its thing) but cooking is what I like to call a hobby. Eating, too, now you come to mention it!

I'm also saving having to make more frequent trips to the supermarket or running a larger freezer to keep a supply of fresh(ish) bread and certainly reducing packaging. It wouldn't work if I wanted a life where I was out partying every night but that would have its own costs.

I'm sure I come out a winner and, if not, I've still got better bread!

Wulf

[123sologne]

Well I am unrepentant. I know that by growing my own vegs I have saved money. I don't have animals, but I am pretty sure there is money to be saved there too. Let us not forget that there are some people on this forum who are living on a shoe string at this point, based on threads I have read and they are managing okay because they are as self sufficient as they can be. I think that should talk for itself.
One point that was not mentioned I think: You don't have to buy seeds every year, as you can pick your own out of the vegs you have grown. It is the start that cost more, but as years go by, you end up saving more and more.

[MKG]

It is the start that cost more, but as years go by, you end up saving more and more.

Nail precisely on head, Caroline - as with any commercial start-up.

Mike

[oldfella]

So, if most of the replies on this forum have pointed out the obvious, IE start up costs etc, how come the BBC, or Mail, fail to point it out.
Oh well, I suppose that's the standards of today news media, and the public's perceptions of them is fully justified.

[Millymollymandy]

I was thinking about the raspberry thing - yes unless you are lucky enough to have a friend or neighbour who already has raspberries who you can get free cuttings from you'll have to buy some plants to start with and that might cost a fair bit - but you should never really ever need to buy raspberry plants ever again in your life as you can just keep progagating from the older ones. So eventually that jar of jam will cost only the price of the sugar and a bit of lemon and a bit of leccy/gas. And what price to you put on pride at having made your own?

[boboff]

I agree the article is russbish
I understand they have ignored multiple use / harvests.

BUT......

All this everything in a Supermarket is Rubbish, full of rubbish, been hanging around so long its lost all its nutrition is rubbish.

You can not plant and grow carrots and potatoes cheaper than you can but them. ( I got 1 kilo organic with the tops on on Sunday for 60p) Morrisons Seconds bags are £3 for 25 kilos. Even if you assume your labour is worth half minimum wage, it's going to be no where near it.

To say that they get stored and are therefore rubbish is poppycock, so you digging a clamp, food nice, them putting in cold dark store, food nasty.

I like gardening, I like eating things I have grown. My Pork costed out at £3.30 a kilo for the whole animal. T***o is selling it at £2.20 a kilo, and with a yellow sticker with 30% off of that I got a 4lb Joint of pork for less that £3.50. I slow roasted as per Jamie O ( recipe given on this site) and it was absolutley lovely. It did us 4 plus GP's on Sunday, it did us 4, 2nd Hand roast on Tuesday, and still enough left for me tonight when OH on Night shift. It tasted good, it lasted a long time, what can be wrong with that? Next week we are slaughtering our Pig, and it will cost me nearly 3 times as much, and I will enjoy making hams and sausages, Gammons Bacon, Brawn, Pate's Stews roasts etc etc.......but if I was living on a shoe string I could not afford this.

So, while the Mail can use sensationalist statements to grab readers attention, I am just saying that perhaps we could not fall down that same slope. Supermarkets have a place in Society, So does self sufficiency, neither is wrong, neither is right, it's what makes you happy that is important.

[wulf]

The supermarkets benefit (cost-wise) from economies of scale. It loses out on things such as the hidden chain from source to shelf (which might contain several steps that one wouldn't want to finance or which detract from the value of the product) and lack of choice (if you stick to the cheaper products, choice is very limited and even the full range of the supermarket is far smaller than what you might choose to grow yourself).

Wulf

[southeast-isher]

So, while the Mail can use sensationalist statements to grab readers attention...

Yes in every column inch of their publication. And they never factor in the supermarket's startup costs in their calculations.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

So, while the Mail can use sensationalist statements to grab readers attention...

Yes in every column inch of their publication. And they never factor in the supermarket's startup costs in their calculations.

Certainly something that is not included in the calculations is the subsidy the taxpayer makes to the supermarkets.

Supermarkets have used their collective strength to push the prices for many agricultural commodities below the cost of production; many farmers are kept in business only by CAP or similar payments. Billions of euros wiped off the supermarkets' cost base, courtesy of you and me.

[boboff]

that is tosh rif raf.

Sorry.

A supplier will supply if they want to.

CAP is paid to farmers, NOT the people who supply supermarkets.................

The benefit is to you and I, as well.

Economics and hippy's don't mix.

[southeast-isher]

Economics and hippy's don't mix.

It looks like fledgling journalists and practical living good for the planet don't mix either!

[The Riff-Raff Element]

that is tosh rif raf.

Sorry.

A supplier will supply if they want to.

CAP is paid to farmers, NOT the people who supply supermarkets.................

The benefit is to you and I, as well.

Economics and hippy's don't mix.

Deary me.

The hip bone is connected to the thigh bone,
The thigh bone is connected to knee bone,
The knee bone is connected to the shin bone,
And supermarkets are connected to farmers.

[123sologne]

that is tosh rif raf.

Sorry.

A supplier will supply if they want to.

CAP is paid to farmers, NOT the people who supply supermarkets.................

The benefit is to you and I, as well.

Economics and hippy's don't mix.

Well, well, I just didn't know that Nestle or Tate & Lyle were farmers.... But if you go to http://www.farmsubsidy.org/GB/ you find them at the top of the list of CAP for the UK.......... And they get some serious money!!!!

[oldjerry]

Would any of you care to be more specific about the the people you are casually defining as 'farmers' please?

[the.fee.fairy]

I read this too, the DM is sadly one of the only papers that doesn't get regularly blocked here...even though they are just about the worst with their Anti-China rants (please...don't start...if you haven't lived here, don't comment on the country!).

The econoics they used were ridiculous, as has been stated tie and time again, the initial startup for anything is expensive, but afte that, things get cheaper every year. They didn't mention homebrew, which can be infinitely cheaper than buying alcohol (mainly with the country wines, some of the beer homebrew stuff can get stupidly pricey!), and they forgot Freecycle, i got all my demijohns on Freecycle, and boot sales, they forgot them too. I bought a load of stuff at bootsales for knitting, and homebrew, i got a fermenting bucket full of stuff for £2, when i got it home, it had a capper, two filters, filter paper thingies, a couple of siphons and some other bits and pieces. The stuff served me for a couple of years, then my sister took some of it to Uni, then i cae back and we used it at home. I think she's brewing something at the moment. I know i definitely started some jam wine and strawberry wine in the summer.

The stuff they compared was ridiculous too. If they had been comparing Jam to the bogstandard stuff you can buy in supermarkets, then i would have said fair enough, but they were using the most expensive. In a way, this is telling the readers that the cheap stuff is full of crap and has no flavour i suppose.

They also don't put a price on enjoyment and pleasure. I love going into the garden and digging up a handful of potatoes for dinner, and making my own jam. I love making bread and cakes and good homecooked food. I enjoy it so much that i've just spent out to buy an oven here!

So...if you spend a lot of money going away for the weekend for some 'peace and quiet' then that should be factored in.

I do, however agree with a lot of commenters about the allotment situation. Allotments are pretty impossible to get hold of in some locations, some having ridiculously long waiting times. If there was more allotent space provided (and not sold to developers to build on...) then more people would find the pleasure of growing their own.

I don't think the woman who wrote the article actually did any research properly, i assume she sat with some price lists and a calculator to write an inflammatory article. If she had actually spent a year or so learning properly, or even scanned sites like this one, she'd probably find that her outcomes would be better.