help working out what's a hybrid pls

[Rosendula]

Although I have bought a few heirloom seeds and saved offspring seeds for future sowings, I'm still very much a novice and am wondering how I can work out what seeds sold by big companies are also suitable for seed-harvesting.
I remember reading somewhere that some seeds (parsnips??) sold by big companies were not hybrids, and therefore it is possible to save the seeds from any packet (I may have remembered this wrong, so don't take it as fact). I had a parsnip that I missed when I was digging up last year and it regrew and went to seed this year, so I've saved the seeds. But I'm wondering, is there a way to read the seed packets so I know what can be successfully saved, and what I shouldn't bother with? I know anything that says F1 is out, but what about things that have numbers but no 'F', like "Beetroot Detroit 2", or "Carrot Early Nantes 6" for example? I'm guessing that anything with any sort of number is a no-no, but it would be a shame to miss an opportunity if I'm wrong. I'm not loyal to any seed company and have seeds from a variety of suppliers.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

I think the other numbers might just be indexing numbers rather then anything more complex. Certainly hybrids above F1 exist - F2 hybrids appear in mixes of bedding plants sold commercially - but F1 are the only consistent quality hybrids and will be labelled as such.

Unless anyone knows different, you should be fine with seeds like those you mention.

[Odsox]

Yes, Jon's right. If the seed is an F1 hybrid it will say so on the packet or in the catalogue.

The numbers you quoted like Beetroot Detroit 2 simply means that it is an improved strain of the original Beetroot Detroit, selected over the original for some improvement or other.

One other thought, just because a certain veg is an F1 hybrid doesn't mean that you can't save seed from it. The resulting plants will be F2 hybrids and probably won't be exactly the same as the parent but will be very similar and at worst will revert to one of the original cross donors.
F1 is nothing like genetically modified plants, all it means is that the F1 seed is the result of cross pollination between two carefully selected varieties to (hopefully) give the best characteristics of both parents.
If you think about it, your children (if you have any) are F1 hybrids.

[Rosendula]

Thanks for the replies

I'm getting to the stage of gardening where I want to collect my own seed. I've been doing it with flower plants on-and-off since I was a teenager, but not with veg. I don't buy veg if I can grow enough of it, so why buy seed if I can grow that too? Also, I'm quite sold on the idea of the plants adapting over the years to my soil type and conditions through careful selection.

I have grown some sprouting broccoli from seeds I saved (grown originally from bought heirloom seeds), and this year I have saved more of the same, plus parsnip, chilli peppers and cucumber. Next year I want to expand, which is why I'm looking into it and learning as much as I can. I think I need to get a book

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Rosey - there's a book called "Botany for Gardeners" by a bloke called Capon which is excellent as an introduction. It is heavy going in places, but I found it very useful indeed in understanding what is going on in plants.

[oldjerry]

I may be wrong,but somewhere in the dark and musty catacombs of my mind ,I seem to recall that seed companies are legally required to label FI seeds as such,so if it don't say they are,they aint.

[MKG]

Is you is or is you ain't my F1?
The way you're actin' lately makes me doubt
Yous is still my baby-F1
Seems my flame in your heart's done gone out
An F1 is a creature that has always been strange
Just when you're sure of one
You find she's gone and made a change
Is you is or is you ain't my F1?
Maybe F1's found some body new
Or is my F1 still my F1 true?

Loads of apologies to whoever wrote it - but reading this thread just stuck that song in my mind

Mike

[grahamhobbs]

Other thing to consider in saving seed is unwanted cross pollination, some plants readily cross-pollinate with other members of the same family especially brassicas and beans. So need to make sure that no others are flowering nearby at the same time.

Vernalisation, the need for seeds to go through a cold spell, I don't think is a problem with most vegetable seeds.

The only other problem in saving seed preventing them going mouldy, which beans are prone to, and ensuring beans are stored after taking precaution to kill bean weevil by putting in freezer for a few days.

[Odsox]

some plants readily cross-pollinate with other members of the same family especially brassicas and beans. So need to make sure that no others are flowering nearby at the same time.

Quite so Graham, not necessarily other vegetable plants either.
Carrots are said to cross pollinate with wild carrot and cow parsley which would make for inedible roots (probably)

[Ellendra]

Save seeds every year from the plants with the characteristics you like best, eventually you will end up with an open-pollinated version, even if you started with hybrid seed.

(Currently working on that with a pumpkin that I like)