salmonella from eggs

[bazil]

hello my bunnies

i was wondering about salmonella after reading this

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/n ... 080100.stm


how does salmonella enter the egg?

how can it be stopped?

the reason i ask is that i wanna keep chickens in the near future

thanx in advance my fellow earth bunions

[Martin]

there's an awful lot of alarmist guff talked about salmonella - keep your chooks healthy, you shouldn't have any problems - lots of good food, fresh air, and somewhere dry to perch, they should be fine!
Outbreaks of disease usually happen becuse of the atrocious way many hens are kept - battery hens are regularly fed a concoction which often contains one or more broad-spectrum antibiotics, and sometimes an ingredient called "dpm" - that stands for "dried poultry manure" - draw your own conclusions! 8)
If you feed them a good healthy diet (ideally organic), and they're able to rootle about outside, they should stay healthy - without antibiotics all the time, you'll soon know if you've got a poorly one!

[Shirley]

I agree with Martin... keep your chooks well and keep them clean and healthy and they'll be fine....

Should the eggs get any muck on them and need washing before eating just ensure that the water you use is warmer than the egg - cold water will allow the bacteria into the pores of the shell and thus increasing the chances of infecting the egg inside. That's how I understand it anyway.

I seem to recall that there are only very low incidences of salmonella in free range flocks.

[Martin]

I don't know if the law's changed, but twenty years ago, you weren't allowed to wash eggs - when the "man from the ministry" came to check your egg-grader, he'd tell you it was not allowed, and in the next breath would tell you where you could pick up an egg-washer!
The problem with washing eggs is that they won't last as long when washed - it removes a natural "protective coat" on the egg and renders the shell more porous - but to my knowledge, many eggs were washed as a matter of course - despite it being proscribed!

[Shirley]

I wouldn't wash them until just before using anyway... as you say, they won't keep as long then.



http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodrin/poultry/epfaq.htm

[Martin]

it's an old hobby horse of mine! - what they say, and what they do is very different! - When you "know your eggs" you can easily spot washed eggs - I've often seen them in "grade a" boxes of eggs
If people are worried about their chooks health, look to "proper food and husbandry" - if you're using a proprietary chicken feed, read the little contents label - if it contains anything like Virginiamycin, run a mile, if it has the letters "DPM", say VERY LOUDLY what it actually is, and show the rep the door (aided by boot or shotgun!). Last but not least - in commercial battery operations, the feed rep comes along with a "colour swatch" - just like choosing the colour for your bedroom walls - you can choose the level of artificial colourants in the feed, which will affect the yolk colour - if you're finicky like me, there's no point in insisting on "natural colourant" - that's a con too - they used to use synthesised canthaxanthins to do the job - the "rules" allow synthetics to be labelled as "natural" if they're a copy of a naturally occuring substance.....................
Best of all - buy organic feed! 8)

[Boots]

Hi Bazil,
My mate contracted salmonella shortly after arriving on the farm and in his own words "he was dying!!!" Unfortunately, I just ignored him and asked him how long he'd be sick.... Oops.

When he was actually diagnosed, I felt really bad for just rolling my eyes, because the doc agreed that he actually was in a very serious condition and his claims were no joke. He needed a serious of shots and moaned and groaned for about a week. (Though that is kinda normal )

Eggs are not the only source, and chicken meat is another likely one, due to its short storage life.

It is considered contracted within 72 hours of very severe symptoms, and my mates triggered an enquiry, as doctors are required to report any cases. I got the all clear on our eggs, and it was considered more likely that it was a chicken product at one of our "fresh" fast food outlets - however no evidence was found.

The way to ensure against it with eggs - is to remember that eggs are very porous and that anything that comes in contact with the shell can be absorbed. It is the animals own waste that contaminates the eggs, so its really important to ensure clean laying boxes or nests. Litter in laying boxes should be regularly replaced and ducks nests should be regularly dismantled, encouraging fresh nest building.

Your laying area should be well clear of your perching/roosting area to avoid any overhead contamination. I see the need for washing eggs as a sign that their laying boxes/nests need my attention. As soon as the eggs begin to look grubby or show signs of discolouration, I head in and give all the collection areas an overall.

Never chance eggs that have been caught in a washout either, these are very likely to have absorbed all sorts of icky stuff...

[Shirley]

I buy the organic layers pellets at the local supplier - they are not cheap £10.75 I think is the price.... I had to buy non-organic growers for the ducklings/goose this time but they are the allen and page Smallholder range that is good... no artificial stuff and it's non-GM

Eggs are beautiful....

Boots - I wouldn't eat eggs after they were rained on either...

Sorry to hear about your friend being poorly - I would have likely given the same reaction as you

Great advice re the housing/nestboxes etc...

[bazil]

thanx guys

that was an eye opener!!

DPM?...yuck

its shocking what corporations get away with
(itll be MRHFS next (mechanically reproccessed human fecal sausage)made by walls of course)

[alcina]

Oh wow...what a source of information you guys are! I had no idea about not washing eggs! And I can't believe (read: I really, really don't want to believe it) they put "DPM" in chicken feed! What sick mind thought that feeding an animal on its own faeces was a good idea?

Now I'm in a dilema...does a little piece of muck on my shop bought (organic) egg represent a potential problem, or does it mean that the eggs haven't been washed so it's a good thing? How do I spot a washed (or rained on) egg? Is it less shiney or more shiney?

Worry worry worry....(I've had a Salmonella type food poisoning...and have absolutely no wish to repeat it...utter agony....the cramps...the cramps! )

Alcina

[Martin]

if you can get real organic free range eggs, preferably straight from the farm, I'd trust them, bits of poo and all! - the birds are the least likely to be unhealthy - they won't have had their immune systems compromised with antibiotics, or any symptoms masked by them!
A "good" egg is usually "glossier" - shell colour is genetic and irrelevant, yolk colour is down to a bit of heredity, but mostly feed contents (or chemicals!)
If you want to tell a fresh egg, break it onto a plate - the yolk will not spread too much, an old egg's yolk (and "white") will spread a lot further! - you want a "firm" yolk that stands up proudly! 8)

[Millymollymandy]

What does DPM stand for? I can't see it explained in any of your posts.

[Martin]

"an ingredient called "dpm" - that stands for "dried poultry manure"

[Millymollymandy]

Phew - the only dodgy sounding thing in my layers pellets is DL-methionine, which appears to be an amino acid. But DLM is close sounding to DPM, so I got a bit worried there!!

[alcina]

Ah..thanks Martin! I shall keep a check on the shininess of me shells and the pertness of me yolks! Ooer!

Alcina