Classless society

[Andy Hamilton]

My trip to work takes me from one of the poorer areas of Bristol to one of the richer areas. The class difference is pretty obvious in each area with very different shops - aldi and lidl in the poorer area and organic wholefood shops in the richer. Also the clothes that people wear are very different - even down to the dogs that people own, staffordshire terriers everywhere in the poor area and it seems mostly labradors in the richer area.

Despite the fact that we are suposed to be living in this brave new world with its classless society it is aparently obvious that we are not.

The real beauty behind the meeting of minds on forums such as this is that your class does not come into the exchange of words. Does this make the virtual world a true classless society?

[Millymollymandy]

Yes but you get rich working class and poor upper class! Think it's more about money these days than class. However no matter how rich (I wish!) or poor I am I always consider myself middle class!

[goldy1]

I don't think class counts for much these days I think Morals are more important.

[baldowrie]

I am classless, I am me poor or rich!

[Muddypause]

I thought the 'classless society' idea had quietly died. Haven't heard it mentioned for a long time. I had a friend once who kept waffling on about how he didn't believe in class. He himself was the epitome of middleclass-ness, and was only able to say such a thing because he had no real experience of working class culture.

Thatcher it was who made a political issue out of it by proclaiming that she had created a 'classless society'. Absolute pompous poppycock - she and her cronies were the very definition of the middle classes. It's as stupid to announce to the middle classes that they have to stop being middle class, as it is to tell working class people to stop being working class.

My personal observations lead me to conclude that class has little to do with money; it is about the sector of society we grow up in, our attitudes and basic values, the opportunities that are open to us, and the way we interact socially. But the crucial point is, that it is very difficult to change these core traits. David Beckenham is still a working class boy, even though he now moves in circles of the rich and famous, and a spell in prison hasn't stopped Jeffrey Archer being a middle class oik. It's a generational thing - you can't change your background, but you may be able to change your social context so that your children will have some class mobility.

But an essential point is that 'working class' and 'middle class' are descriptions of a social demographic - cultural distincions. To think of abolishing these would be like telling a Cornishman to stop being Cornish. They are each as valid a part of society's make up as any other. We have to get over the archaic thought that 'working class' = 'lower class', and that one is somehow better than the other.

[zombiecazz]

I think the water is very muddy.


There is still very much a class distinction, but it used to go along with a distinction in money terms too, but now. We have a very poor middleclass. I remember hearing somewhere that the middleclass have ended up being the highest tax payers, because the rich pay less tax because they can afford accounts that help them avoid paying tax and the lower classes don't pay tax anyway. or something like that.
I would class myself as middleclass, but if you just looked at the financial side I'd be lower class.

[2steps]

I have never thought of what class I fit in, never really thought it mattered

[Merry]

I find it interesting when you fill in surveys etc and they ask you what your occupation is then label you C1 or B2 or whatever.
My dad was a miner which made me very much working class, then I was a secondary school teacher which bumped me up a notch or two. Eventually I became a primary teacher which was apparently a label below secondary teachers! Now I`m a pensioner - -
So I`ve floated about with gay abandon all my life
Daft I call it

[jondy]

I noticed a change in the way Lidl may be going. A page advert showing lobster, crab, and such luxuries. Lidl moving upmarket? A sign that they have to tap into more profitable lines, (no more cheap loaf) to survive our high tax society. If class is about money then the employees of your local council able to retire at 60 with their guaranteed pensions will become the middle class well off, for example. I read that the costs we pay to provide local government with their pensions averages £196 per household per year. Top Whitehall civil servants have pensions worth on average £1.7m each. and so it goes on. We work, they retire. A new class divide then, the haves and the have nots later on in life. Pensioners choosing between heating or eating it is said.
Self sufficiency the way forward for many of us.

John

[Boots]

Thatcher only called it a classless society because she had none.

Having loads of class... I can say that, you see.

[Boots]

... Well, Truth is, when God was handing out arse, I thought he said class and got stuck with an extra serve...












But you can help...


*********SUPPORT TEAM TRIM TAUT AND TERRIFIC*******

[bazil]

im in a class of my own


im a freak

[Merry]

Are you disowning the rest of us freaks??

[Milims]

I think that Class is now an archiac definition of socio economic postion.
You either have enough money or you don't!!!
I've changed definitions all the way through my life, as an artisan (Joiner) I am classed as working class even though I can earn more than most managerial types. As a Reports and Business analyst I was middle class even though I didn't earn as much! (Did this for 3 years when it was difficult to get work). Now as a Site foreman/Site agent I'm not even sure what category I would fall into as I'm still in construction but have a managerial role (Easier on the hands and knees what with having RA but the pay is nowhere as good as working manually!)

And don't even get me started on the NEUVO RICHE part of society! What could be called wannabe middle class.........

What does it matter really what Class you are pigeon holed as, so long as you are happy, fed and have enough money to pay the bills....

Class is just another way of sneering at those you think are below you:
Example in case, I was a shopfitting joiner working on refitting a tax office. Yes I was scruffy, we had just demolished a couple of walls, old jeans and t-shirt, and held a door open for a member of the office staff. The attitude i was shown was nothing but distain, sneer and no thanks. Unfortunately I decided, being me, that that wasn't fair and opened my big mouth saying " A thank you would have been polite!" Was answered with a withering look! Not being a faint hearted type I threw myself into the fray and replied "I'm sorry you seem to feel that I am not worthy of some form of thanks for my action, but I am assuming that you are on the standard payscale for civil servants" to which the reply was " and what has that got to do with you?" to which i replied " I earn 3 times your salary, Pay your wages with my taxes, and atleast have the common curtesy to treat all around me with respect no matter who or what they may appear" Needless to say i got a royal roasting for it but hey, if common curtesy is too much to for people to bother with in this society, I am quite happy to no longer be a part of it!

As a Reports and business analyst I had to be at, and also chair meetings with all spectrums of society, from the people punching numbers in through to Board of Directors, Government bodies, Ombudsman management and MP's. My philosophy is, everybody deserves respect, we are all members of the same team, no matter how distant or weak the link may seem. It's up to you the person I'm talking with to maintain that level in kind or i'll give you short shrift!

Vive La Revolution!!!






PS the boys in white coats are here now to take me away and finding it difficult to type with my nose as my hands are firmly tied behind my back in this really nice and warm white coat they have so kindly provided

See you all as soon as they decide I AM a reasonably normal member of society!!!


Chris (and Helen who is hiding upstairs in the bathroom cupboard till they have gone so she can send me a cake with a file in)

[Martin]

did anyone else read Jilly Cooper's hilarious book "Class"? - it came out about twenty years ago, and it is a very perceptive look at the class system!
To my mind, class and money have little to do with each other these days - I know lots of people who'd be classed as "uppper middle class" who don't have two halfpennies to rub together, and loads of people who'd be happy to be labelled as working class, who are rolling in money!