Classless society

[circlecross]

yes I read it!!! Although it came out yonks ago, it is still very perceptive on certain stratas of society. I think class is a state of mind, not bank balance, or where you live NECESSARILY, as we are skint, over educated, leftie-liberal-middles, living on the same street as benefit shifting, smoking over the kids lower class (who don't recycle). My sister is super-rich compared to us, but would appear to be middle-middle class with her golf-playing, refained talk and neat clean easy-living house in a good area. My MIL (grrr) is a nouveau, as they had piles of cash, very fast, but came from poorish/working class families, so all the trappings of the nouveau (phone for the fish knives Norman etc), and ridiculous imagined slights to society and manners are still with her.

I'm happy to be a happy, hippy, leftie-artie over educated middle class reader of Green Parenting, and trying to grow some organic veg for my family to ignore, (but not bra-less!)

Susan

[Martin]

the thought of "Jen and Brian Teal" still makes me chortle!

[circlecross]

they are so-o-o-o my sister and BIL!!!

[colhut]

The real beauty behind the meeting of minds on forums such as this is that your class does not come into the exchange of words. Does this make the virtual world a true classless society?

Well, the in the meeting of minds class does not come into. However the virtual world is a huge distortion of the geodemographic makup of the country. I believe that only somthing like 57% of housholds have an internet connection, so 43% don't. That 57% is not going to be a representative set of the population. So the people that get to meet minds in a classless enviroment like this are in themselves already class biased.

Accordign to the survey on the gov statistics website, the reasons for that 43% not haveing access are:
The internet has nothing to offer/ not interesting 24%
Lack of Skills 24%
Equipment too expensive 14%
connection costs too high 11%

just in the last 2 there 25% of those that don't have net acces don't have it for financial reasons.

[Muddypause]

Whilst it's interesting to read other people's perceptions of what constitutes (or not) 'class', I find it toe-curling to still hear people use the anachronistic 'lower class' when they mean 'working class'. I thought we'd long since left behind that way of demeaning others, though I accept that the word 'working' is not really adequate.

[Stonehead]

Here's one for Boots and Wombat. When I left Oz 13 years ago, there wasn't much in the way of class distinction apart from the odd silvertail who thought he/she was somehow better than everyone else.

All that really mattered was what you did with yourself. Has that changed much over the past 13 years?

I've found it really odd in the UK as many people insist on trying to match me to a class so they can work out how to relate to me.

If I tell them my dad's a retired army officer and my mum a retired librarian, then they assume one thing and act accordingly. If I tell them I never went to university, my grandad went down the mines at 13 and my dad started on the railway as a fireman, then they assume another thing and act accordingly.

It's the same now - on the one hand I'm a landowner to some, but a grotty manual worker to others.

All very amusing, if occasionally irritating, because to me, all that really counts is what you do with yourself and whether you match words with deeds.

But is Oz still like that or is it/has it changed?


PS And to those who see this avatar, I'm an escaped convict!!

[PurpleDragon]

Did anyone see that documentary on the telly called "The Filthy someones"?

I can't remember their names but they were artistocrats who lived in this massive mansion. They had to invite the cameras in to earn some money because they were totally brassic. The Lord was a complete victorian with an "I'm so much better than you" attitude and the children were unbelievable. The poor mother had married in, and I think she regretted it. The house was a complete cowp, and she was finding dead bats and pigeon poo inside the house that had been there for years - she was slowly trying to clean the place up. I think those "How clean is your house?" women went in and did another programme but I was too disgusted with them to watch again.

[baldowrie]

I earlier I put I am classless, may be I should revise that to I have no class

[Stonehead]

I earlier I put I am classless, may I should revise that to I have no class

More like beyond class!

[baldowrie]

my old Grandmother, who was a common as muck and proud of it, said to me she liked me as I didn't change with my bank balance.

Stoney I was getting all prepared to give some one a virtual thump, I'll let you off

[circlecross]

sorry haven't worked out this quote thing, but lower class does not necessarily equate to working class - I use working class to mean "someone who works and considers themselves a hard worker" (I used to consider myself this until my dh said as I'd been to more than one uni I had to be middle ). Lower class I mean by people who don't work, and are in a certain society band, and may be proud to claim benefits while laughing at all of us saps working to pay for their laziness. Or something. I only ever refer to class when drawn into threads like this or my MIL is p*ssing me off with her "I'll have my milk out of the jug please" nonsense.
Example: my vile neighbours who never spend time with their kids, prefering to lock them out of the house until they have smoked and drank to capacity, one evening came into the garden and put on Classic FM (after hearing me play it one afternoon). Imagine our amazement. It was ruined somewhat by the father then bellowing "F*ck off out of it you stupid little f*cker" to his three year old because she'd knocked his beer over.
You see? It should have been Pimms!!!

Susan

[Wombat]

Well Stoney, you wouldn't be the first to say that Aus has no class

I've had a bit to do with people on both sides of the track so to speak and while there is a class system of a sort - try listening to a conversation between somebody from Vaucluse (Money) and someone from Mount Druitt (the dole). I was once accused of being upper class because I have a reasonable vocabulary and don't say "youse" as in "Get outa there youse kids".

I agree with attitudes values and all that stuff but, here at least, class is how you speak to a great deal, vocabulary, accesnt etc. It is therefore possible to make huge mistakes, like thinking common as muck me is one of the upper crust, or some of the rich, but down to earth people I have known as tramps.

Getting back to your point Stoney, I think it exists but is not as stratified as in the UK. That is the "Sydney" experience, but we are yet to hear from Boots.

Nev

[Stonehead]

Getting back to your point Stoney, I think it exists but is not as stratified as in the UK. That is the "Sydney" experience, but we are yet to hear from Boots.

Nev

Interesting. I lived at Baulkham Hills and went to school at Model Farms for a time in the '80s.

A few people looked down on us because we were army (but you get that everywhere and it's not about class), there was a bit of stirring about westies (mainly because they insisted on wearing ugg boots, jeans and flannel shirts) and about a dozen families used to get a right earful because they thought they had money and therefore were somehow "better".

But the main distinctions back then were "Ford v Holden" and "League v Union".

[Wombat]

Interesting. I lived at Baulkham Hills and went to school at Model Farms for a time in the '80s.

I did some woodturning classes and Model Farms high!

(mainly because they insisted on wearing ugg boots, jeans and flannel shirts)

You slagging off at my uniform or what?

Nev

[Milims]

I've escaped from the bathroom cupboard and managed to stop giggling at the other posts and have come to put my 2 penneth in!
I think this entire class thing is bunkum - we can't be pigeon holed like that - it doesn't work.
For example a few years ago my Aunty Mary (looks like a 50 year old Barbie, from the posh part of Glasgow, retired Home economics teacher, loves Laura Ashley) and my Mum were out for a drive in the country when they came to a place where there was a gate across the road. Before my Mum had the chance to get out of the car to open the gate a scruffy looking man opened it for them. As they passed thru my Mum opened the window and thanked him and had a little chat. Driving off my Aunty Mary asked if she always spoke to tramps. My Mum replied " But Mary, that was Lord Sutherland!!"
On another occasion, when we first moved to this area, my Mum, being head of the village school, was to go to the hunt meet on the village green and meet the Duke of Northumberland. She spent ages practicing her courtsey and a polite "your Grace". When the moment arrived she made to courtsey to the Duke and was greeted with " Hello Betty! What are you having!" After a couple of Percy Specials and a chat he went off to find his wife to introduce her to my Mum. In the mean time a lady came over and asked where the loo was. My Mum offered her the key to the tachers loo but said she'd stand outside and wait for her so she could collect it. Returning they key the lady said "phew! thats better than peeing in a ditch!". As they returned to the green - the conversation was about the fact that the ladys riding habbit was held together with safety pins - they came upon the Duke who said "Ah! I see you've met my wife!!"

We apparently live in an area which has officially been "diagnosed" as an area of socio-economic deprivation, yet according to, I believe it was "Country Living", this area is one of the most desirable areas in the country!! Go figure!!

The gist of this is, it seems to me that it is the people who think they have class have none and those who don't believe in a class separation treat everyone with the courtesy and respect with which they would like to be treated. Like we say - I don't care who you are - you still s**t sitting down!!

Helen and Chris