Oh I am so insulted, you are so rude!!!

[Jack]

Gidday

Feel better now Fenwoman?

But I would have been the rude one in your situation because it would have been a much shorter conversation.

Anyway, I often get into trouble because I don't change the way I talk just because some PC person thinks some words or phrases have suddenly become unaceptable to some.

[QuakerBear]

Mr. QuakerBear has always said that those who are rude have something wrong with them, I suppose like a mental health problem. This never calms me down at the time (I'm not white, people are often rude, overtly by spitting, shouting, or covertly by ignoring or shoving me), but it does help me turn my boiling down to a simmer after the event. I think there might be some truth in what he says but I still find it shocking how inconsiderate people can be. They'd be up in arms if someone did it to them.

I grew up and lived in pretty much all female enviroment till I was about 24. I got used to people being very political. Now I work in a very blokeish all male workplace, and they swear, shout, stomp, chuck things around and generally have tantrums when they're disgruntled. I'm not sure if it's because they don't want to be cunning and political or because they're simple souls who don't have the higher mental functions women do but I certianly prefer their approach. There are no grudges held.

With regards to to political correctnes mentioned here; sometimes I think this is just a re-branding of manners. I don't care who are what you are, when you were brought up or what culture you're from, calling names is just plain rude and not polite. One the other hand there seems to be a gaggle of white, middle aged, middle class white women, who usually work in human resources (not all of you of course) who have invented the extremes of political correctness and remind me of that Fat Fighters woman that Matt Lucas plays. If you're not white you can have great fun with them leading them on...

Sorry for the long post.

[red]

she drove a 4x4.. I did not need to read anymore.....

So you don't read anything I write then?

ah well - as you know there is a whole pile of difference between a 4x4 because its needed..( my parents have a landy.. complete with winch on the front.. they live on a farm......) and a 4x4 that is for show.

the fact it was a big new 4x4 implied to me that it was not a workhorse.

but you *knew* that didn't you

[Thomzo]

Perhaps if any of us find that someone is taking offence to the way we say things on a regular basis then we need to think about the way we type. Zoe

This is the bit I find hard. What I hear is that if someone is over sensitive or misconstrues something I have said, then I have to change how I talk to conform to their way of thinking.

I hear what you are saying but if you repeatedly find that people are taking offence at the way you type things then maybe it is something that could be addressed? If it's just a one off that theyve taken the wrong way then there's no harm done (but then we wouldn't be having this conversation would we?).

I speak my mind too. I have occasionally come across the odd sharp comment from someone who has taken my remarks too literally or not read them properly. I just let it go, life's too short to take these things too seriously. If it happens a lot then I would think about the way I say things. I don't want to upset anyone else so why not just put the words in a different order to avoid doing so? It doesn't cost me anything.

Zoe

[red]

yes I agree with Zoe, Fenwoman.. it costs nothing to think how to phrase a difference of opinion, and if everyone is happier.. thats a good thing right?

[fenwoman]

I'm inclined to want to shake Fenwoman's hand since we think alike. And I'm under 30. I'm inclined to be honest, but I also listen to the opinions of others.
I don't think it has to do with age, but certainly with attitutudes - specifically self-centered attitudes. When the reader/listener only hears their own self-interested response to something and are too lazy or self-centered to consider what the other person is actually meaning... then they assume the other is rude.
Few people seem to bother to take the time to actually listen and properly interact with people.

My most recent story of being called rude (hmm, first in a very long time now that I think about it) involves a telemarketer. First thing she asks after I say hello is if my parents are there. Obviously my answer was no. I refrained from replying she could call them in Winnipeg. (That might be rude - however honest a response to her silly question.) Next she asked if I was Mrs. B. To which I replied no. (One minute I'm the assumed daughter, now I'm my deceased mother-in-law!... I didn't change my family name.) So she said 'okay bye' in a huffed tone and I said 'bye'. As I went to hang up I heard her say 'how rude. you could have been mrs. bartley.' I'm still not sure how my simple honest answers to her silly questions were rude. She never even said who she was or why she was calling, so who's the rude one? (I'm rude for not conforming to her ill-formed expectation of how a call should proceed.)
Obviously she was a telemarketer, so I wasn't about to offer up any information:
"No, I'm not Mrs. B, I'm Ms. F and even though I'm in the middle of making dinner and I have no idea who you are or why you are calling, I'm going to put my life on hold, after answering your stupid questions, to answer more stupid questions about something I'm not interested in - even though I also know you have no invested interest in actually making a sale since you don't know how to make a polite phone call or speak with a potential customer, or even who you are trying to call."

Admittedly, I tend to take secret pleasure in avoiding telemarketers with the truth... "Is Mrs. F there?" Nope. Noone here by that name. "Is Mrs. B there?" Nope. Better get my name right. If you actually know my name, you have a chance of speaking with me... at least long enough for me to say no-thank-you, you-can-take-me-off-your-list, bye.
I dislike telemarketers, but I'm never rude. I don't simply hangup. I let them get their mini spiel in - it's their job. If it's too long I'll interupt when they try to breath and tell them I'm not interested. But I don't just hang up - I treat them like the human being they are stuck in a crappy job.

<shakes hands>
I used to have a wonderful deterrant for telemarketers. I used to have a gorgour giant schnauzer girl who was taught the command 'speak' when shown a hand signal. If I got a telemarketer, I would signal 'speak' and she would woof very very loudly while I had the reciver near her mouth. Every few seconds I would say "I'm sorry could you speak up please"....."sorry, can you please repeat that"....."I'm afraid I can't hear you can you say it again louder"....."I missed that bit can you ......." at which point they would usually very rudely hang up and 'Harley' got a reward.

[Karen_D]

I've found some people (and it can go across a wide variety of ages and backgrounds) are so self-absorbed that they forget that most other people exist - let alone have thoughts and feelings that might not be the same as theirs. Everything they do is geared up for themselves and anyone the purport to care about. They don't view themselves as part of any community let alone a society.

It's very sad to see that consideration and curtesy are becoming lost arts!

Wassail

Karen

[Stonehead]

but you *knew* that didn't you

Did I? Sorry, but I don't have the higher mental faculties to grasp this level of communication. I'm just a poor, dumb, male swineherd.

[fenwoman]

I've found some people (and it can go across a wide variety of ages and backgrounds) are so self-absorbed that they forget that most other people exist

<looks around> Who said that????

<evil grin>

[fenwoman]

Perhaps if any of us find that someone is taking offence to the way we say things on a regular basis then we need to think about the way we type. Zoe

This is the bit I find hard. What I hear is that if someone is over sensitive or misconstrues something I have said, then I have to change how I talk to conform to their way of thinking.

I hear what you are saying but if you repeatedly find that people are taking offence at the way you type things then maybe it is something that could be addressed? If it's just a one off that theyve taken the wrong way then there's no harm done (but then we wouldn't be having this conversation would we?).

But here's the thing. In real life, nobody takes offence at the way I speak and in the main people don't take offence on the internet either. It just takes one person to see offence where none was intended or to object to the way I say something and then there are a load of "me too" posts from people who weren't offended enough to complain before, but jump in once someone mentioons it. You see, that's what I find odd.Why do people get offended online, yet in the real world people don't get offended normally at my blunt and straightforward way of saying things?

I speak my mind too. I have occasionally come across the odd sharp comment from someone who has taken my remarks too literally or not read them properly. I just let it go, life's too short to take these things too seriously.

Me too, but some people ( small minority) seem born to complain. Perhaps it makes them feel important?

If it happens a lot then I would think about the way I say things. I don't want to upset anyone else so why not just put the words in a different order to avoid doing so? It doesn't cost me anything.

Zoe

I agree. For my own case, I would say that generally only a very tiny percent of all of my posts get moaned about. I post a lot when I get going as I am very opinionated and have something to say about most things

[baldowrie]

well I am just a grumpy old woman So if any one is rude to me I couldn't give a s**t

[fenwoman]

well I am just a grumpy old woman So if any one is rude to me I couldn't give a s**t

Are we related???

[baldowrie]

my friend has just bought me the book

[ina]

Fenwoman - if that had happened to me, I would have fumed inwardly, but probably still done "that woman's bidding"... Because I find it very, very hard to be assertive, especially in a polite way. And then, once that woman had gone, I would have fumed less inwardly, probably either grabbed a bottle of beer (or food if I'd still had to work), and played the whole thing in my mind over and over again, saying all the things I should have said and done... Basically what you DID say and do.

I admire folk who can say what they mean in a calm manner.

As to online insults or not - I try to ignore it if I feel insulted, unless it gets repeated and affects others, too. But I do often have a problem with folk who write as they speak, i.e. with no discernible punctuation, which I find incredible difficult to read and understand! Often I really don't know what they are on about, whether they are trying to be insulting or not - maybe you have to be born British to have enough appreciation of the language to guess at the meaning - but maybe that's where a lot of misunderstandings originate as well.

[fenwoman]

Fenwoman - if that had happened to me, I would have fumed inwardly, but probably still done "that woman's bidding"... Because I find it very, very hard to be assertive, especially in a polite way. And then, once that woman had gone, I would have fumed less inwardly, probably either grabbed a bottle of beer (or food if I'd still had to work), and played the whole thing in my mind over and over again, saying all the things I should have said and done... Basically what you DID say and do.

I admire folk who can say what they mean in a calm manner.

As to online insults or not - I try to ignore it if I feel insulted, unless it gets repeated and affects others, too. But I do often have a problem with folk who write as they speak, i.e. with no discernible punctuation, which I find incredible difficult to read and understand! Often I really don't know what they are on about, whether they are trying to be insulting or not - maybe you have to be born British to have enough appreciation of the language to guess at the meaning - but maybe that's where a lot of misunderstandings originate as well.

I wasn't always forthright. When I was young, as a result of an overbearing, physically violent and bullying father I didn't dare say boo to a goose.
After I left home I was the same. Then after I had been divorced and was on my own with my son, I sat and thought about things after being bullied at work. My life was being made miserable. I sat one evening and thought about it and worked out that if my life was already miserable, what did I have to lose by standing up for myself. Next time I was told to make tea for everyone at work, instead of merely doing it, I told the woman that I thought I'd done more than my share of tea making and if she wanted tea, she should make it herself. To my utter amazement she said "ok, do you want one?".
A few jobs later I was given a sales job and some proper sales training and found that to be invaluable. I was taught to ask for what I wanted, don't be vague and hope the other person guesses and to be forthright explain what I was selling and then negotiate on price. I had to set my lowest and go no lower and learn to say "no, that is not acceptable" and state what I wanted out of the deal. I guess doing that every single day really helped and I have learned that life is far easier if I make perfectly plain my 'bottom line', explain why I won't go lower and then say what I want. In life, dealing with other people is a bit like a sales deal. Each has certain expectations. Neither can guess what the other wants and it is way easier if at least one person can say "no, that isn't acceptable to me, this is what I would like". Then the other party has a base line to work on.
Think back to your last scenario where you felt put upon and figure how it would have gone had you been a salesperson. For instance, person demands to see chickens, it isn't convenient. That is your bottom line. So explain why you won't go lower than your bottom line and offer and alternative if you must, so, not convenient right now, please make an appointment so that I can spend more time with you and discussing your needs. Customer goes away delighted, thinking how professional you are wanting to make sure that you get things right for them, when in fact what you did was make it more convenient for you.
The only thing to do with a doormat is to wipe your feet on it. Don't be a doormat, be a salesperson
I would not have sold the posh bird any chickens no matter how much money she had (I'm awkward like that) so my bottom line was just that and I never go below my bottom line. I was polite, I was firm, I explained my position, said goodbye (politely) and carried on dealing with my daily correspondance.
When you are next under pressure, think quickly, what is the worst that can happen if you don't immediately do as this person is asking. Will you get sick, or die? Will you lose your home . Nope. The worst that will happen is that they get offended and go off in a huff, or they call you names or get aggressive. Stand your ground reiterate your stance.Will that hurt you? Will you get sick or die from it? Nope. The chances are in fact that they will happily negotiate with you or accept your decision.
Take it from a former wimp, it works.