wood burners

[contadino]

or they're stupid enough to ignore the very real safety aspect of having their flue done by a professional installer, and get gassed with a bit of pipe shoved up a leaky flue..........

There's nothing stupid about DIYing a stove installation. Just because I'm not a 'professional' doesn't mean I can't do the job properly, and I'm sure the CO alarm would bring any imminent gassing to my attention. Pillock.

Edit: As this is a forum about self-sufficiency, I'm surprised to see people being branded as 'stupid' for DIYing. It should be the first option to consider.

[contadina]

I think that I should add that our DIY-installed stove has kept our whole house warm for the past two winters and we're both still here.

If you are not confident in installing one yourself then definitely get a professional in.

[Martin]

I too know several amateurs who are capable of doing a safe job, BUT
"just shoving a bit of pipe partway up the flue" (as mentioned in the original post, but now edited out!) - shows a lamentable ignorance of the subject, and is a sure recipe for disaster!
I can be very scathing of "Health and Safety", but this is one of the cases where it really is important - you may "get away with" an unlined flue, but it isn't worth the risk!

[dudley]

No Martin it is not worth the risk and you are correct regarding the safety issue of having the fire/flue correctly fitted BUT if someone has the ability to do it themselves there is no reason, armed with all the information they need to do it correctly, they shouldn’t do it themselves. I am all for stopping rouge traders carrying out bodge and dangerous jobs but were getting into a situation here in the UK where we will not be able to do anything ourselves without qualifications. I can’t even fit an additional power outlet now on my farm without either paying £100s for building control approval to have it inspected or getting a suitably qualified electrician to do it.
Steve.

[Martin]

ps, in the UK, there are also regulations covering it.............
http://www.hetas.co.uk/home/building_control.html
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upload ... J_2002.pdf
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/stove-flue-sizes.html
at least be a well-informed pillock (whatever that may be! )

[Martin]

Dudley, I agree totally, but unfortunately there are times that people need "saving from themselves"
The trouble usually starts when they try to do it "on the cheap", and having lashed our for the stove, are loath to dig in their pockets for the "non-sexy but essential" bits like flue liner, and proper register plates etc, which can easily add more than the cost of the stove!

[dudley]

And of course being self sufficient does not mean getting in professionals or others to do the work for you, be it sowing seeds of fitting your fire!

[baldowrie]

sorry but you are wrong IF your chimney is sound you do not need a flexible flue in a existing chimney. These flexi flue are used to create a chimney when the original on is unsound. The flue pipe is filled in around it to create a new chimney. The flexible flue will eventually burn away leaving a new chimney without the flexible flue in place.

If a flexible flue is definitely needed then why do you not need one for an open fire? They can get just as hot and can cause chimney fires just as easily, in fact easier.

I have spoken to a few professional fitters, half say you need a flexible flue and half say you do not IF YOU HAVE AN EXISTING SOUND CHIMNEY. But ALL say you need a minimum of 1 mtr of vitreous pipe exiting the stove and up the chimney.

Installing a flexible flue means mega bucks for an installer....work it out for yourself. Flue or no flue if you want the money?

Their are many of us that don't just do things like a bull in a china shop, we do our homework and obtain knowledge in several different directions and only go ahead with things if after gaining knowledge are competent to do the job.

Oh and my CO2 monitor has NEVER gone off. The draw is very good, and the fuel consumption very low.

Oh and register plates do not stop gases come down a flue (they are not sealed), they stop debris, soot and the like

[Martin]

you try telling our local building control that!

[dudley]

This ‘to line a flue or not to line a flue’ is really ambiguous. Obviously every installation should be treated on its own merits and requirements and unless 100% sure better err on the safe side rather than save a few bucks. You can easily fit the wrong liner too, such as the thin flexible gas liners, so take advice.

[dudley]

This ‘to line a flue or not to line a flue’ is really ambiguous. Obviously every installation should be treated on its own merits and requirements and unless 100% sure better err on the safe side rather than save a few bucks. You can easily fit the wrong liner too, such as the thin flexible gas liners, so take advice.

oops hit the return ket twice, sorry!

[baldowrie]

if a chimney fails the smoke test or you are concerned then yes put a liner in. So unless you 100% your chimney is sound, line it

Martin...building controllers, planners all work to the rule of the brown envelope don't they?

[Martin]

I probably have a "raw nerve" over it - as a company we'll fit woodburners, often combined with solar hot water, and we have to stick to all the regulations - which is irksome, and adds to the cost - BUT it does mean you can walk away from an install knowing it's as safe as you can make it!
We really do try to encourage amateurs where it's safe to do so, but flues can be silently dangerous, hence my caution.....
As a matter of interest, this is what a friend of mine doing a diy install has spent..........
8kW Woodstove with back boiler £775
45 degree elbow flue section £40
Flue liner, rain cap, register plates etc £305
Plumbing parts £120
Heat Leak radiator £70
System Link (neutraliser) £130
Brickwork & hearth (labour) £200
Hearth, Materials, tool hire etc £100
Flue lining installation £100
Total so far £1840

This is for a typical 2 storey house - for 3 storeys, add more for extra liner

[baldowrie]

well that is a reasonable price but there are some who will charge £2000 plus just for the flexi flue installation alone. They are the ones who push for flexi flues as a most unecessarily.

One of my old neighbours was charged £9000 for the replacement of his existing flue EXCLUDING the pipe!

[Martin]

might as well stick in a bit of self promotion here - for less than that (average £8,500 - £9,000) we could provide and fit a 12kw woodburner, with backboiler, appropriate flue liner fitted, all plumbing, solar store, 30 vacuum tube panel etc. - all to current regs........