allotment attacks

[AXJ]

crumbs.. we have a right collection here.... as you probably know the words "hooligan" come from a particlulary roudy and non-lawabiding Irish familty who lived in Deptford in the 18th Century. Their dedendants still live in a permanent travellers site just off Lewisham Way. For what it is worth wikipedea gets close, but it is wrong.

Hey well ex South East London residents, good to get away from there in the end eh?

Old Tree Man, if you can move do, it is hard, very hard, but the quality of life improvement is astonishing. One can imagine that the whole world is like New Cross or other parts of the UK... but the UK has a horrible disease. I am convinced it has something to do with the fact that we speak (more or less) the same language as the Americans, and that society has been steeped in the worst aspects of American culture with out anything getting lost in the translation. The non-english speaking world has been spared this unfiltered barrage of nastyness.

[Super.Niki]

don't so much think it's something to do with "non English speaking" because every country has it's problems it just depends how much it's shown in the media as to how much we "fear" it.

Thinka bout it, more people are scared of flying because every time a plane crashes it's all over the papers.... yet not many people are scared of driving in a car because only the very very worst car crashes are reported in National News so it doesn't get as much coverage. If they covered every car crash, maybe the ammount of cars on the road would decline? In some, strange, way maybe that's what the media and "them" are hoping will happen with the violent culture we live in today? I'm not sure?

Anyways... it's one thing to beat another human being to a pulp or even kill 'em... but to intentionally injure an animal is just sick. I read an article somewhere (might have been someone posted it on here, can't remember) where these kids got into a field and chased a horse around the field and ended up killing it (I think they used a glass bottle and a hammer or something sick like that). Anyway the owner was notified of her poor horse in the field bleeding to death... it was really sad when she described when the horse saw her come into the feld she tried to get up but fell over in pain again, the vet had to put her down because of her injuries. The animal had been with it's owner since it was a young thing (is it fowl for a horse? Not sure?) and was something like 15 years old... I'm actually sobbing now because it was so sad.

Mosly the kids were let off because it was "never planned".

Just sick....

I think ANYONE of ANY age that even THINKS about hurting an animal for "fun" or "for a laugh" should jsut be... well... how should we say... 'removed from society'. Being a part of society should be a privelage and something to be proud of, if you can't handle the responsibility if upholding general good behaviour twoards fellow humans and animals... then you don't deserve to be part of society.


Anyway.... I'm either going to get slammed something terrible or someone's going to agree... soo... here goes!!

Just my opinion... I hate people that are just generally nasty for no reason. It's disgusting ... I'll shut up now!!

[AXJ]

don't so much think it's something to do with "non English speaking" because every country has it's problems it just depends how much it's shown in the media as to how much we "fear" it.

All I know is that life in the UK is the pits in the context of this conversation, it echos the USA. Life in the country where I live, that is not so well connected with USA culture, does not seem to suffer the same levels of gratuitous violence. I did decades in the not so nice parts of inner London, I did not need to read a news report to know what was going down around me. It did not stop me walking in the street at night. That said I actually enjoy walking on the streets at night in these parts, in London it was a necessity, here it is a moment to enjoy the fresh air, maybe have a smoke and take in the stars.

[Super.Niki]

I do agree AXJ, life in the UK does seem to be a lot more violent these days...

[MINESAPINT]

Hang on. This thread is about the cruel & needless slaughter of 100 or so animals. I am surprised that no one has condemned bull running & bull fighting. As far as I understand AJX seems to think this is OK because the bulls are eaten afterwards. If the allotment holder in this case collected the dead chickens, ducks, geese & goats and dressed them and put them in his freezer, does it make the slaughter of these 100 animals OK because they were eaten afterwards?

[AXJ]

I am surprised that no one has condemned bull running & bull fighting. As far as I understand AJX seems to think this is OK because the bulls are eaten afterwards.

No AXJ thinks it is okay, y punto. BUT, I don't think it is okay to go running rampant through an allotment or farm yard killing indescriminately, as I said the perps of said crime should be made to run before the bulls in Pamploma. Has more of a sense of justice than just giving them a simple thrashing, as also suggested. I am not going to start a defense of bullfighting or bullrunning, as far as I am concerned it is fine, those who don't like it often don't know much about it. I serve meat to people, for me any other view point would be sheer brazen hypocracy. I believe that there are far more important things to worry about than interfering in nobel and anchient traditions of democratic foreign countries, just because one does not like seeing meat being killed, I have yet to see anyone eat a live cow.

How about Zimbabwe, China etc. Lets get the priorities right.

So to reiterate

1. my suggestion was that the kids should be punished by running before the bulls (this would actually be illegal as children are not allowed to enter the bullrun), but you get my drift.

2. The UK is not going to hell in a hand basket, it is already there.

Mine's a Kalimotxo
:violent2:

[Annpan]

I don't agree that the UK is as bad as it seems... the inner cities are, yes maybe, but not the whole country.

I grew up with gang fights outside my door, shootings along the road, it didn't seem that bad at the time and I never thought of it that much. I used to walk 6 miles home from my work in the city-centre (by 4 in the morning, I was the only one out on the streets) I was never once hassled at night time (a few attempted muggings during the day, in busy places, but never at night)
I always had the belief that if you keep yourself to yourself, you won't have any problems.


Where I live now... not a hint of anything, there is a gang of kids that hang about when I first saw them here I sped up, head down walking past them and they all said hi and smiled - I had to laugh at myself for being such an anti social prat for thinking they would be anything other than lovely guys.

Don't tar the whole of the UK with the same brush please (and don't pretend that these things don't happen in inner-cities around the world) Perhaps we all need to do our bit to be a better community and we won't have so many of these problems.


As for bull running, well I think it is sick, and it is sick to torture or needlessly cause pain to any animal - but I still eat meat as I believe that the animal has had a clean and quick death (I only eat certain meat from certain sources) I don't know that what these kids did is any worse than what happens in Bernard Mathews farms.

[MINESAPINT]

But the noble & ancient traditions of cock fighting, badger baiting, dog fighting, fox hunting etc are now outlawed so why not bullfighting?

Having fished commercially there will not be many people reading this that have killed more than me but there is a way to kill to minimise suffering. Chasing and taunting your prey is not one of them.

Yes there are many countries in the world with appauling animal rights records but because one country is more evil than the other does not make it OK. I will never forget a newspaper article complete with photos of live dogs trussed up on a market with their shoulders broken and their legs slit and forced behind their heads and threaded together. I also remember the RSPCA inspector remarking how the screams of those dogs will never leave him when they skinned them alive. The one thing I am unsure about is the location of these abuses but as far as I can remember it was in the Philipeans. But this does not mean lesser acts of animal abuse are OK.

[AXJ]

But the noble & ancient traditions of cock fighting, badger baiting, dog fighting, fox hunting etc are now outlawed so why not bullfighting?

Because it ain't your country thank goodness. No-one eats foxes, badgers, fighting cocks or dogs (well not in Europe anyway). There is nothing cruel about the Pamploma Bull run. One person was killed this week. I guess that you have not watched cattle queuing up at a slaughter house then compared that to Bulls waiting to run rampant through crowds of humans.The cruelest thing that happens is that they get 'touched' with a rolled up newspaper, as that is the challenge for the humans.

The bulls for bullfighting live the most amazingly well cared for life before they go to slaughter. The treatment they get makes the five chicken freedoms look like Auschwitz The Matador is contracted to kill the bull, just the same as an abattoir. I don't care where you may get your meat from, it is still dead animal, most likely stood in a queue and watched (smelled and listened) to it's fellows being killed.

It amazes me how much imagination people have, when nothing is left to the imagination. But when assured that the meat has come from a good source, don't think twice about it. There should be a cable channel or webcam set up so you can wach your happy meat going to the slaughter.

As far as the UK is concerned, of course not everywhere is Deptford and New Cross.

If you would like to start a thread about Bull fighting and Bull Runs, I will be happy to discuss the matter there.

[AXJ]

Sorry I forgot to mention, I think the outlawing of Fox Hunting is completely stupid towny interferance.

[MINESAPINT]

I have lived directly opposite a mini slaughterhouse when they were permissible in the centre of towns. When I was very young I routinely used to watch animals being slaughtered. I now live on a dairy farm milking 140 holsteines. Occasionally a cow dies in the field trying to give birth or for some other relatively natural reason. Last week locally a couple of cows were killed by lightning. These are the lucky ones as they do not have to go through the slaughterhouse routine. I am no stranger to slaughterhouses and as a result have been a vegetarian for many years. But I do not wish to start preaching about vegetarianism. I just strongly disagree with unnecessarily causing stress to any animals for any reason. I consider myself lucky that it was not me who chanced across the children amidst the carnage in Guisborough as I am sure I would be sending this message from my prison cell!