Another rant...sorry!

[JulieSherris]

Hear, hear!!

I was the daughter of a single mum - She was married young & split from my dad soon after I was born, so I never got to know him growing up. (I found him 11 yrs ago - nice guy!)

Growing up in 1960's London was fun - for me anyway, but it was hard for mum.
She had a day job & I was a latchkey kid at 4 (you couldn't do that NOW!)
Unfortunately, she also had a 'night' job too - she probably wouldn't if she'd had the chances of a council place, income support &
other benefits, but, hey, that was life back then.

Now my eldest is a single mum - when pregnant, her guy went for a visit back home - and never returned! As his home was in Australia & he disabled all contacts - mobile, email, etc, it was left to me & hubby to sort things out.
Yes, she's been on benefits, but she's never tried to use her single status to get financial gain.

Here in Ireland, it's more common for women to raise the kids. The little one is at school now & her day starts at 9.30, finishing at 2pm for the first year. The welfare officer told her that if she were lucky enough to find a part time job to fit with those hours, then good luck, but in all seriousness, she's better off concentrating on using these early years to raise a happy healthy little girl.
I nearly fell off my chair when she said that, you'd NEVER hear that in the UK!! The general rule of thumb for chasing women back to work here is when the youngest kiddy is about 12, I think - but don't quote me on that!

Sometimes I wish I had a magic wand - but then my ideal world would be different from a lot of folks, so I guess we still wouldn't be happy.

When kids stop having kids, maybe a little respect would be injected back into society - until then, it's up to us to keep on keeping on, I suppose. I certainly don't have any answers - but I sincerely wish that someone somewhere out there does!
Julie.

[invisiblepiper]

Our kids will never be perfect - Thank God!!!
We live in a very pushy parent type of place - where people are judged and judging every day. As a result - I feel many kids miss out on their childhoods as they are pushed to achieve more and more - often to boost parent status,
Sometimes young girls do get pregnant - often by accident - often while using contraception. At least we no longer lock them in asylums for wanting to keep the children!
You are correct Julie - we just have to be there when they need us - that's what parents are for.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Anyway it is about the plan to send all single Mum's back for training/work when a child reaches 1. I have no problem with it in theory - but think that the government should perhaps get single people/those on JSA back to work first...(though where these millions of jobs are coming from I don't know..)

I'm a bit out of the loop here - who exactly is supposed to be looking after said children while the mother's are out doing their YTS or minimum wage shift in McDo's?

The whole thing is completely mental. I'm no bleeding heart liberal, but quite how seperating children of single parents from one of the few constants in their lives at such an early age is supposed to help rear balanced, happy children is beyond me.

Another witless plan to try and garner votes from the the hang 'em, flog 'em and sterilise 'em brigade I suppose.

[Clara]

I fear you my bring the mail readers out of the closet on this one (again!)....but I think it's worth pointing out that all children, no matter how they were conceived and who their parents are, surely have a right to be parented, be that by mothers, fathers or other guardians. Pushing single parents into work, pushes kids into childcare - and whilst I'm sure there are very good childminders and nurseries, it takes away the choice for a parent to look after their own child. Parenting is as important to the future of society as most other jobs, it's about time our culture recognised this.

[Annpan]

Does anyone actually know someone who ..." just [has] kids like others have cups of coffee.." ? or who "... just keep having kids to get housing and money off the state and keep themselves in fags and booze." ?

Yes.... I know a few/ have known a few...

Girls who stop using contraception at 16, then when they are pregnant their Mum gets them on the housing list. When 16/17 year old has the baby, the wee brother (age 12) can move in to her house, because Mum's house isn't big enough. The boyfriend is rarely encouraged to stick around as you get more money as a single parent, so he continues to flit between his Mum's and girlfriend's houses for the next few years, ensuring brothers and sisters (and more income)
The girl (now in her early 20s with 3 or 4 kids) goes out and gets a job because Granny looks after the kids or 'the social' give her even more money that she would normally earn working (tax benefits, childcare vouchers, etc) and fiddling the system at every opportunity is all part of the game.

Yes it happens, but it happens in concentrated areas so if you don't live in that community you are unlikely to know anyone personally.

[Rosendula]

Having couple of teenage children, I too get to hear about real people like the ones Annpan mentions, above. They certainly do exist, but they make up a small minority of single parents. I also know a widowed mother of 3 - her husband died in his 20s. And I know people who have escaped violent marriages, taking their kids along with them. And a person who's husband fled back to his country of birth as soon as he found out he was going to be a father.

I have often said to Richard that bringing up kids is hard enough as a couple. It must be awful to have to do it on your own.

azjh77, I have to agree with your husband. If reading the news upsets you so much, then at least cut down on how much of it you read for the sake of your happiness. Everyone is entitled to be happy. We banned news programmes from our house when the eldest two were little, as we didn't want them to see or hear the descriptions of the horrible violence that is reported. Instead, we read the news on Sky News Active. I stopped doing that a couple of years ago because I was on a drive to make myself happy after suffering years of depression - and what is more depressing than the news? Believe me, if anything happens that you need to know about, you'll hear about it.

[MuddyWitch]

They have just said that most chidhood obesitiy sets in in the first 5 years of life. If parents (single or otherwise) are constantly pressurised into going back to work, then neither of them will really feel like cooking proper food and be very tempted to just rely on ready meals....

As a former single parent, (first husband knocked me around so much I'm now deaf in right ear), I often wish the people that condem should, as the Native Indians put it, "walk a mile in my shoes" before sounding off.

*climbs off soap box*

I am very lucky: I'm now married to the most wonderfull man I've ever know, but not all single parents have such luck.

MuddyWitch

[DominicJ]

Does anyone actually know someone who ..." just [has] kids like others have cups of coffee.." ? or who "... just keep having kids to get housing and money off the state and keep themselves in fags and booze." ?

Personaly, no, I dont associate with such people, but I'm aware a great mny of them exist.

As a former single parent, (first husband knocked me around so much I'm now deaf in right ear), I often wish the people that condem should, as the Native Indians put it, "walk a mile in my shoes" before sounding off.

Gladly, after you walk a mile in mine.
I somehow have to find the money to pay my mortgage in January, I'm lucky, I still get paid for 35 hours a week, even if I'm really working 70, several hundred thousand others are going to sacked and be left with nothing.
But hey, your husband was abusive, so you deserve a home more than the people who's taxes pay for it.

Before we get the usual rants of racist, which in this context I just dont get, my mum was a single mum, dad just buggered off one day.
She worked and raised three kids.

[Mr and Mrs luvpie]

I think that what people need to bear in mind is that every persons circumstance is different, I was left bringing up two small children by myself when exH walked out, they were 2 & 3, and I had no choice but to work with them being placed in child care which actually cost more than my mortgage did at the time, but I also wanted them to learn as they were growing up that you have to work for things in life, not everything is given to you on a plate (4 of the exs side of the family were happy living on benefits, despite 2 of them being perfectly able to work if they had chosen to).
My mother in fact wanted me to quit work to look after the children and to try and force their father into paying a decent amount of support for them, but I just couldn't do that, with son no. 3 I was able to take 9 months maternity leave and have reduced my hours, this time round he is only cared for by either myself or my husband. I would have loved to not have to go back to work, and if in the furture there is a chance that I could be a stay at home mummy for ever then I would jump at the chance, as long as my family could survive on what we had and not rely on handouts.

I too know some people who are perfectly happy sitting at home all day, and not able to possibly think about getting a job, 'I'm a full time mum don't you know' said one of the people I know, I didn't have the heart to ask how she counted herself as that as both the children were either at school or nursery now she followed it up with the fact that she would be worse off if she had to work. I also know of a mother at my sons school who is trying to get pregnant currently, her youngest son is about to start school, and in her words if I don't have another little s**t then they'll make me work!

I suppose all I'm trying to say is that people should be able to make their own choices in life, however if they make a choice of having children with no intention to work and support them then something should be done to disencourage this, then if benefits to this group were less there might be money available to help those who find themselves in a position not of their doing. I was lucky that when first husband left I had a good job, and an understanding employer who altered shifts etc to help me, as otherwise I would have lost my home, but I also know that if there had been help that I had been able to recieve in those first few terrible months that would have allowed me to stay at home and support my children through what was a very confusing time for them then I would have jumped at the chance.

Just judge each and everyone on their own circumstance help those who need honestly need it, and help those who don't gain the skills that would help them in the future.

sarah

(sorry for the waffle but once I get going, also I forget what I've said - the joys of trying to feed baby and think at the same time!)

[JulieSherris]

Hang on a minute.....

I think we all have to think about WHY some people are keen to live on benefits. No, I'm NOT condoning, nor am I condemning, I'm trying to point out that it's not all black & white. Also, I should point out that I'm NOT talking about any one person in particular.
Most of you know that I am not a fan of long-term benefit takers - but that's because of my own personal experiences with my family.

However..... a fairly typical scenario up & down the country.......
A single mum with 2 kids... renting a 2 bed flat, maybe.
OK, Rent - £90 a week (and I'm generalising here) - paid by housing benefit
Council Tax - £25 a week - paid by benefit
Leccy & Gas - £20 a week
Phone - £5 a week
Shopping - £45 a week - paid by approx £30 in child benefit & £110 in income support
Total Benefits worth approx & at least £255 a week, NET.

Now that's the basics & hasn't taken into account clothing, repairs, travel, childcare - but that alone would cost a single mum £185 a week. That means that the single mum needs to find a job that pays a minimum of £5 an hour NET..... Now, add on approximate childcare costs of £75 a week - that's £15 a day, and say an extra £40 a week for travel, clothing & miscellaneous expenses..... that's £300 a week NET for working..... and the average single mum with 2 kids would be getting at least £255 a week on benefits.

So in a nutshell, it now becomes apparent as to WHY a lot of people stay on benefit - especially if they are unable to snag the sort of job that earns them this sort of money.
I'm not saying it's right - I'm just saying that once in the system, it's damn hard to get back out again without falling massively into debt.

[Nomada]

As a former single parent, (first husband knocked me around so much I'm now deaf in right ear), I often wish the people that condem should, as the Native Indians put it, "walk a mile in my shoes" before sounding off.

Gladly, after you walk a mile in mine.
I somehow have to find the money to pay my mortgage in January, I'm lucky, I still get paid for 35 hours a week, even if I'm really working 70, several hundred thousand others are going to sacked and be left with nothing.
But hey, your husband was abusive, so you deserve a home more than the people who's taxes pay for it.

Before we get the usual rants of racist, which in this context I just dont get, my mum was a single mum, dad just buggered off one day.
She worked and raised three kids.

How would that be racist anyway? I don't get it. I think that's all a bit unfair, after all, she never said she was on benefits did she? You assumed. What was she meant to do? Was she was meant to stay with her abusive husband so that the single mum figures stay low and you feel a little better? If you're working 70 hours and getting paid for 35 then averaged out you're on less than minimum wage which is probably illegal, can you do something about it?

[MuddyWitch]

Thank-you Normanda.

For the record, I left when he held a bread knife to our three week old's face. I didn't live on benefits, I worked at three jobs, living briefly in B&B 'till I found a small flat.

I didn't respond immediatly because I truly belive we should not be negative towards one-and-other. I wish Dominic (and you all) a much happier & more fulfilled 2009.


MW

[contadino]

Does anyone actually know someone who ..." just [has] kids like others have cups of coffee.." ? or who "... just keep having kids to get housing and money off the state and keep themselves in fags and booze." ?

Personaly, no, I dont associate with such people, but I'm aware a great mny of them exist.

As a former single parent, (first husband knocked me around so much I'm now deaf in right ear), I often wish the people that condem should, as the Native Indians put it, "walk a mile in my shoes" before sounding off.

Gladly, after you walk a mile in mine.
I somehow have to find the money to pay my mortgage in January, I'm lucky, I still get paid for 35 hours a week, even if I'm really working 70, several hundred thousand others are going to sacked and be left with nothing.
But hey, your husband was abusive, so you deserve a home more than the people who's taxes pay for it.

Before we get the usual rants of racist, which in this context I just dont get, my mum was a single mum, dad just buggered off one day.
She worked and raised three kids.

OK Tory-boy. So you're saying that the hardship your family suffered during your childhood was a good thing. I don't agree. A socialist society (which, whether you like it or not, is what was supposedly voted in at the last UK election) cares for people who cannot care for themselves. There will always be the few who abuse the system, and there will always be dimwits around the harp on about it and tar everyone with the same brush.

There are always others worse off than yourself so stop wallowing in self-pity.

[MikeM]

Does anyone actually know someone who ..." just [has] kids like others have cups of coffee.." ? or who "... just keep having kids to get housing and money off the state and keep themselves in fags and booze." ?

Personaly, no, I dont associate with such people, but I'm aware a great mny of them exist.

As a former single parent, (first husband knocked me around so much I'm now deaf in right ear), I often wish the people that condem should, as the Native Indians put it, "walk a mile in my shoes" before sounding off.

Gladly, after you walk a mile in mine.
I somehow have to find the money to pay my mortgage in January, I'm lucky, I still get paid for 35 hours a week, even if I'm really working 70, several hundred thousand others are going to sacked and be left with nothing.
But hey, your husband was abusive, so you deserve a home more than the people who's taxes pay for it.

Before we get the usual rants of racist, which in this context I just dont get, my mum was a single mum, dad just buggered off one day.
She worked and raised three kids.

OK Tory-boy. So you're saying that the hardship your family suffered during your childhood was a good thing. I don't agree. A socialist society (which, whether you like it or not, is what was supposedly voted in at the last UK election) cares for people who cannot care for themselves. There will always be the few who abuse the system, and there will always be dimwits around the harp on about it and tar everyone with the same brush.

There are always others worse off than yourself so stop wallowing in self-pity.

leaving aside the poor grammar and witless insults (something I hope the mods will be picking up) we didn't vote in a socialist government in the last election. We voted in a big state, pro capitialism government. If you think this mob are socialist you need to read up on your politics.

[DominicJ]

If you're working 70 hours and getting paid for 35 then averaged out you're on less than minimum wage which is probably illegal, can you do something about it?

Join the unemployed?
I'll take little money over none

What was she meant to do? Was she was meant to stay with her abusive husband so that the single mum figures stay low and you feel a little better?

Instead she left and lived off my money to make you feel a little better?
I realise she in fact didnt, she did the right thing worked, but that doesnt really fit the theme.

OK Tory-boy. So you're saying that the hardship your family suffered during your childhood was a good thing.

Did I tell you I was considering standing at the next election? Didnt say it was a good thing, just said it was.
However, I've certainly turned out better than my fellows who's parents didnt work.

A socialist society (which, whether you like it or not, is what was supposedly voted in at the last UK election) cares for people who cannot care for themselves. There will always be the few who abuse the system, and there will always be dimwits around the harp on about it and tar everyone with the same brush.

Except its not a few, the few are the people who need a little help through no fault of their own, the vast majority are wilfully welfare dependant because they're better off that way.
They activly chase benefits, if that means mutliple kids by multiple fathers, thats what they do.