Other people's children

[Thomzo]

Hi Guys, can some of you parents help me please?

I really am not very good with children. I didn't really grow up around other children so I'm just not used to them.

A week or so ago, I was visiting a friend who was allowing her 3-year old to play with a water pistol while she was barbecuing. For various reasons I didn't want to get wet so I kept telling him not to point it at me (hoping she might take the hint and give him another toy instead). Every time he did point it at me, I patiently pointed it towards some plant. Eventually, of course, I did get hit and reacted with a sharp "I told you not to do that!". The kid ran away crying and I immediately felt guilty.

In the supermarket earlier today I was minding my own business when some child ran past me and slapped me really hard on the thigh. It was so hard it stung for ages and made my eyes water. I was so shocked that I ran after him and told his dad what had happened. I accept that I was rather too sharp in the way I spoke to the dad but I was just so shocked. I got an earful of abuse in return (I guess the dad was just protecting his son). The boy of course burst out crying and denied doing it.

So, come on guys. What should I do in these circumstances? Should I just shut up and let these kids do whatever they want or is there a way I can let them know that their behaviour isn't acceptable without causing upset?

Cheers
Zoe

[red]

even though I am a parent, I am not great with children. Actually I'm fine with kids, its just I dont happen to adore them, nor think its ok for them to do whatever they like.

some parents do think its not down to them to tell their kids not to do something. I remember my (ex) SIL wathcing me while her son threw a pack of cards all over the floor (my house) and walk away. i was not interfering as it wasn't really important, just rude, and i was sure she was about to say something. then she said to me. 'oh well if you aren't bothered, nor am i' !!

so yes, you have to do the telling sometimes. try to do it calmly and firmly.. leave no reason for the parent to think you might have acted unreasonably. if they dont like it, then they will have to stop the child doing the bad thing themselves. What you will find with this approach, is often the kids end up respecting you more than their parents., and want to win you over more etc..

as for the parent in teh supermarket.. well yes, he wont like a stranger telling him he is out control of his son. he might be a complete waste of space.. probably judging by the child, or he might just be being defensive. either way the child is likely to reconsider hitting the next person.

[Clara]

So, come on guys. What should I do in these circumstances? Should I just shut up and let these kids do whatever they want or is there a way I can let them know that their behaviour isn't acceptable without causing upset?

As in all cases with kids I think it's important to pick your battles wisely...and accept that if you do decide to take it on there is no guarantee that you can get a happy resolution, in fact more than not the kid is going to get upset whether that is reasonable or not.

The two situations are markedly different; in the first situation you we with a child you know and you were anticipating a situation that eventually happened. I think it is reasonable to ask not to have the watering pistol pointed at you (though best not to give them ideas before the fact!) but perhaps not wise to then go into the situation deeper by pointing it away, I would've have removed myself from the place for a minute or two and let them find something else to do. Just a note on language but your friend was "allowing him to play with a water pistol", that's a strange way of saying it given that it was his home and it is a fairly normal activity, perhaps you might want to reflect on what that phrasing might inadvertently say about your attitude to children in general.

In the second situation, a random child committed a random act of low level violence against you. You didn't see it coming and it is unlikely to happen again, how that child behaves in the future is of little consequence to you. And whilst it was clearly not OK, I am wondering what you hoped to achieve by following it up, given that the reaction of the parent and your reflection of the situation has caused the situation to stay with you far longer than if you'd just muttered "little bu**er" and gone on with your shopping. I personally wouldn't have picked that one to pursue, but that's just my 2 cents.

[Annpan]

My child wouldn't be 'allowed' to play with a water pistol when they are harassing guests. just as I wouldn't 'allow' a child in my care to throw a ball around in a crowded area or 'allow' them to play with countless other inappropriate items given a set of circumstances.

And 'allow' is exactly the right word to use, in my opinion.

If I had been in that situation I would have asked the parent if they would mind restricting the child to more appropriate/less distruptive games.


As for the child thumping into you, I had a similar issue when a boy around 11 was walking down the street with his Mum, I walked past him just as he turned around to spit.... and he spat on my leg. I stopped and shouted after him to ask for an apology, he was mortified and I doubt he would be doing that again in a hurry (disgusting thing to do in public anyway)


Sorry, but just because you are unlikely to see the child again doesn't mean that their bad behavior should be accepted. Do they just run around like that everywhere they go, and continue to get away with it when they are older?


If it was my child in either of those situations she would be disciplined and the person who had been affected by her anti-social behavior would be solemnly apologised too.


I think I secretly hope for a return to the days where any stranger would tell off a child in the street, and they would have respect for policemen, teachers and 'ladies in shops'

[Thomzo]

Interesting replies, thanks guys.

I did use the word "allow" deliberately because I had repeatedly said that I didn't want to get wet. I don't know but I do think that if it had been my child in that circumstance, I would have respected my guest's wishes and found something else for the child to do.

I think I over-reacted in the supermarket cos I am tired and covered in bites (which, of course, isn't the kid's fault). And I didn't go rushing after the parents of the flies that bit me . Probably a battle left alone next time.

Zoe

[Clara]

Let it be understood that I don't necessarily think either of those behaviours are OK, but Thomzo didn't ask for advice as to how to deal with her children doing those things but how to deal with being on the receiving end. I was trying to give her advice as to work out what she wanted from those situations, presumably in the first place to a) not get wet and b) not upset child or friend but for the second situation I didn't understand what it was that she hoped for in the way of resolution - does any grown woman really "need" an apology from a child or would it just be getting an apology to somehow feel that the situation had been "won"? I can understand as a parent if I saw my child hit someone I would "need" to have them apologise, because it is my job to bring them up as a reasonable human being, but you can't guarantee that any random parent you approach in this way will see that you are creating a learning opportunity - and in this situation the stress caused by the reaction of the parent seems to outweigh the original incident.

And in my house children are allowed to play with their toys, they are not allowed to cause harm or annoyance to other people, but water pistols are definitely for squirting at people not plants (where's the fun in that), sometimes those things are mutually exclusive so we all work towards consensus, but I do expect visitors to give ground and lighten up a little, this is my children's home too, don't come round in your best frock and new hair-do if you can't bear them getting ruffled and I won't let my kids disrespect you or your things or make you feel uncomfortable in your house.

EDITED TO ADD: Thomzo we crossed posts, I guess there was just a little matter of semantics because I didn't read it as being "allowed" to harass you, which is clearly not something to be ignored. On a similar note, anything I have written above is not aimed personally at you but a discussion of the situation in general and trying to see it from the angle of all participants.

[pumpy]

In our village, we do have a minor problem with some lippy little buggers, but i've found that sitting & talking to 'em is far more beneficial to reacting to 'em. As a result, i'm now more likely to get a greeting of "hello Andrew" rather than a muttered "pi** off you old to**er". As i have told them, respect is a two-way thing, & is earnt, not given. They are our future, so let's usher them onwards with a firm, but well-guided,kick up the arse!!!

[Thomzo]

Clara
Absolutely nothing you have said has caused me any offense whatsoever . What you have said is perfectly sensible.

I don't think I was expecting the child in the supermarket to apologise. Rather, I wanted the parent to know what the child was doing so that he could deal with it but I just went about it the wrong way.

I suppose the problem is that when you aren't used to children you don't think about the fact that you might get wet/grubby whatever around them. Personally I can't see any fun in a water pistol but then that's probably because bullies used one on me when I was a kid.

Cheers
Zoe

[Millymollymandy]

Hear hear Annpan, well said.

Seconded!

[Green Aura]

First, let me say I don't like guns - any size or shape, water or bullets. Had I had boys, they wouldn't have had any at home (just like my gal wasn't allowed "my little pony" )

However, I think that maybe you could have turned the situation around by inviting him to come and water the flowers with it then distracting the child until the water pistol was dropped and forgotten. 3 year olds are really easy to distract and move on if you give them a bit of attention - which of course is what pointing a water pistol at you was meant to achieve.

It just takes a bit of practice, Zoe, and you might find it's quite good fun.

As for the other child. I think you did absolutely the right thing in telling his Dad - even if you feel you were a bit OTT. Parents don't like to think that their children are badly behaved, and of course will defend them. But if this child's behaviour goes unchecked who knows where it could lead. If other people complain then at some point his Dad will have to acknowledge his offspring's bad behaviour and hopefully do something about it.

[Rosendula]

Zoe, I think you had every right to be a little bit peeved in the first situation, and downright annoyed in the second. Don't start thinking you're no good with kids, it's other parents who don't nurture their own children that are no good with kids, resulting in kids that are no good with other people. If you had witnessed the second situation rather than being in it, you might have had the time to realise that a child who goes around slapping strangers is very unlikely to have a parent who has good manners and a caring attitude.

Personally, I would say if you find yourself in a situation again, take a good deep breath and try to talk to the parents calmly. When people feel they are being attacked (as the father of the brat in the supermarket may have felt), they will defend. If you had managed to talk calmly to him, he might have been more inclined to listen.

First, let me say I don't like guns - any size or shape, water or bullets. Had I had boys, they wouldn't have had any at home (just like my gal wasn't allowed "my little pony" )

I had that idea with my son. Then one day when he was still a toddler, his father (my ex) took him to his grandparents house. He came home with a couple of plastic guns. If I had taken them off him, he would have been upset, and I thought that by banning something he had already been introduced to might have the effect of creating a morbid fascination for them. So I let him keep them. But secretly remained angry about it for many years.

[Clara]

First, let me say I don't like guns - any size or shape, water or bullets. Had I had boys, they wouldn't have had any at home (just like my gal wasn't allowed "my little pony" )

I had that idea with my son. Then one day when he was still a toddler, his father (my ex) took him to his grandparents house. He came home with a couple of plastic guns. If I had taken them off him, he would have been upset, and I thought that by banning something he had already been introduced to might have the effect of creating a morbid fascination for them. So I let him keep them. But secretly remained angry about it for many years.

Going further OT, but I have four male friends (2 x 2 brothers), who were brought up communally by the four parents, the mothers were hardcore peace campaigners in the 80s (spent time in prison for protesting at Greenham - that kind of committed activist). Naturally guns and military toys were prohibited, as they didn't want to fuel the culture of patriarchal violence, as they saw it. Years later I was talking with one of the mums about this and she said that they still played wars and shot each other with sticks etc...the boys are now grown: a maths teacher, a physics pHd student, an entrepreneur and a factory worker, all perfectly lovely men. The moral: toys are just toys, it's parenting that counts.

[Sky]

I think that the parents of the child with the water pistol must have mush for brains, if my child did that to a visitor they would be sent to their rooms to make them know it was wrong.
The child who slapped you obviously didn't have a great role model in life so you have to feel sorry for him really.

[Smallholder1]

In our village, we do have a minor problem with some lippy little buggers, but i've found that sitting & talking to 'em is far more beneficial to reacting to 'em. As a result, i'm now more likely to get a greeting of "hello Andrew" rather than a muttered "pi** off you old to**er". As i have told them, respect is a two-way thing, & is earnt, not given. They are our future, so let's usher them onwards with a firm, but well-guided,kick up the arse!!!

My sentiments exactly!

[Silver Ether]

Personally I would have taken the dad by the throat ... see how he liked being knocked about ... Sorry ... but too much horrid behaviour is allowed to go on, an eye for an eye ... Its time folks had respect for others around them ... He should have at least made the child apologies. How is he to ever now how to behave if he's not taught. I don't think children should always be distracted either .. *water the flowers,* If a child is asked not to do something then they just shouldn't. Its one of the ways we protect them .. *don't run across the road*

I think you had every right to react sharply being slapped by anyone is bound to make you feel angry, and that was the last thing you were expecting ...

I know I will get yelled at for my feeling on both matters ... but I am strong and can take it