Is this media hype gone mad?

[Graye]

We have my son, DIL, also 6 year old plus five month old grand daughters arriving next week.

As they are struggling to fit things in their car for the trip we have been making various things and improvising for their visit. My son and DIL are all for this and looking forward to their break.

So far OH has come up with a great pine cot made from a defunct bunk bed and a high chair made from an old high backed oak bar chair - complete with tray. They are both functional, clean and safe. I've made a full set of bedding from an old padded mattress cover (lightweight duvet) and a set of cotton curtains (duvet cover and sheet), all well washed first. The only outlay so far has been on a cot mattress.

Today I was having a chat with my American daughter (looong story but she has lived in the States since she was eighteen and has become about as American as it is possible to be). She was horrified! We obviously could not have complied with all the regulations for baby equipment, it can't possibly be safe, she wouldn't let her son sleep in a set of old curtains (!) and what if there were, heaven forbid "germs" in the old mattress cover? The baby might manage to tip the chair over (most unlikely as I struggle to tip it) and what if she climbs out of the cot if it's not at the optimum height (at five months old??). Actually we did check various dimensions online first so we covered that bit...

Then she discovered we have been buying bio vegetables and making up frozen puree. After a long discussion about more germs (the veggies were boiled so I can't seem there being much scope for rampant bacteria here) she concluded the poor child probably won't survive her visit. I don't see her and her husband bringing their 18 month old son to visit us anytime soon.

I did remind her that she and her brother appear to have survived despite me but she is not convinced. I dread to think what they spend because the media tells them they have to. Is it me who is odd or are people too easily seduced by stuff like this?

[lazyspice]

My mum brought two kids up on her own with very little money and I don't think we had anything new apart from shoes and an occasional toy until we started working! I don't think it did us any harm and probably explains why I'm as unmaterialistic as I am (although my brother went down a completely different path for a long time and ended up bankrupt!). I honestly believe the world has gone mad, with rules and regulations and health and safety taking over from common sense in far too many circumstances. You're hardly likely to take any risks with your own grandchild, are you?!

I think it's wonderful that you have done this for them, they will know that their visit is important to you and it's a wonderfully creative use of existing resources

[ina]

How did I ever get to my ripe old age? My parents managed to travel with us kids without even having a car (and therefore space to pack all sorts of unnecessary stuff). We didn't have a bathroom until I was 4; no fridge or washing machine until a few years later, and no freezer until I was a teenager... And I was generally quite a healthy kid. I have no patience for folk like that - sorry!

[old tree man]

we brought all our seven up on puried home grown veg, we made christmas pressies for them as we could not afford to buy new, jane made our clothes as in those days there were no charity shops, and to add all that together we allowed them to play in the garden where they ate.........all sorts of stuff ......mud ...worms .....all organic i may add and they all grew up strong healthy and gave us thirteen grandkids at the last count...........phew.. and as i know they are bringing theres up the same way....what on earth do these new ways know, apart from bringing your kids up in an hermetically sealed bubble

[Annpan]

Enter neurotic mother, stage left:

Firstly... the curtains.... are you sure they weren't treated with fire retardant chemicals? I have tried to reuse old curtains, washed and washed them and they still have a shine about them which I think is the chemicals... I wouldn't let me baby sleep amongst them in a million years... but... I don't know about the curtains you have used obviously.

Secondly... it isn't recommended to give a child under 1 a duvet of any kind, it is recommended by the 'specialists' to use layers of thinner blankets instead.... or one of the modern baby sleeping bags which E has and is wonderful for a wriggler.

At the end of the day the parents of the baby will know the best about what she needs and no-one should argue with them but I think maybe your daughter has a point, I think she is a bit over the top and I don't agree with everything she says but there are things we know about bringing babies up now that we just didn't know before.




It is all very well us all saying 'well I didn't reach this ripe old age.... and I'm just fine' But think of the percentage that didn't make it.

When kids died of whooping cough and measles so readily... and more recently with asthma and cot deaths... If my OH had been born in the 50's or 60's his asthma would have killed him at 5... and we now know his asthma is caused by dust and specifically the thick dust that carpets hold.
A brother of OH's grandfather died because he fell off a swing, he just died 10 days later.
Perhaps others died of allergies and other simple conditions that we now know more about.

[red]

sorry Graye - but I think your daughter is being a bit silly.... dya think this might stem from a slight resentment that you are going to so much trouble?

I see nothing wrong in any of these homemade things. Of course.. you have to think, but i am sure the curtains would have been labeled if treated with something, equally im sure you have thought about paint etc on the furniture.
you can tell that she is talking nonsense when you get to the bit about pureed real food being bad for the baby! - anyone who thinks processed *must* be better has been well and truly conned.

Remember a lot of today'd advice will be thrown out in the future, just as it has over the years. remember how everyone was throwing away their cot mattresses. my mum was told to put her babies down on their fronts, we were told to put them on their side or back.

At the end of the day, it is down to the parent's choice - so if you son or DIL baulk at one of your offerings, don't be offended, take it in your stride as I am sure you will. My mum as great - although she sometimes disagreed (dont you think he would sleep better on his front?) she went with my wishes without a fuss.

perhaps you need to be ready to counteract some of the comments next time. ie its been shown that children brought up on processed baby foods are more likely to be fussy eaters. And children no exposed to dirt etc are more vulnerable in the long run.

so no its not you.. you carry on making these lovely things.

[Rosendula]

Secondly... it isn't recommended to give a child under 1 a duvet of any kind, it is recommended by the 'specialists' to use layers of thinner blankets instead.... or one of the modern baby sleeping bags which E has and is wonderful for a wriggler.
.............. there are things we know about bringing babies up now that we just didn't know before.

Whilst I agree with a lot of what you said here, Annpan (the things I missed out, of course), having 2 teenagers and a LO I can say from experience that the so-called 'experts' do change their minds a lot. The thing that comes to mind first and foremost is in relation to cot-death. The 'specialist' advice when my eldest two were little was to put them on their sides with a pillow behind them to stop them rolling onto their backs. I totally ignored this advice as I thought it was silly. When the youngest came along, the same 'specialists' were then saying not to do that, but to lie them flat on their backs.
***
On the subject of the fear of germs (spermophobia), I wrote my dissertation about it. I suggested, did a little bit of research and (of course) 'found' that we are living in a spermophobic society which has been created by the advertisers of cleaning products. It's not enough to keep things fairly clean any more, we have to have a toilet cleaner, a bath and sink cleaner, a tile cleaner, a shower cleaner, a tap cleaner, a floor cleaner....... and that's just in the bathroom! We have been told to kill all germs, dead, then drink some from a bottle to top up our good bacteria (note how the baddies are often called 'germs' and the goodies are refered to as 'bacteria'). It drives me mad. Researchers have shown that kids that live in sterile conditions are more susceptible to germs when they do inevitably come into contact with them. They just don't have the chance to build up a decent immune system. I could go on, (and on and on), but I have just turned around to see that LO has followed the suggestion of the bloody annoying shop assistant in Sainsburps and done foot printing with her paints all over the place.

And just before I submit I see Red has just said something similar Great minds and all that...

[Graye]

Good point Annpan, but I'm pretty sure the curtains weren't treated with anything. They were part of a combined duvet/curtain set I bought years ago and appear to be exactly the same material. There is no sheen to them and they appear to be 100% pure cotton so I don't see a problem with them.

Son has phoned me this evening to say he has been speaking on the phone to his sister this evening (she is obviously still fretting about our conversation earlier today) and had wound her up even further (as he usually manages to do...deliberately I might add. They are the original chalk and cheese, just 10 months apart and could easily come from different planets). As he pointed out to me, things which were apparently hugely important to the "experts" when H was born (she is now 6) are now old-hat with a new baby or toddler. And things I fed MY kids as babies are now looked at as verging on criminal for children under a year old (mashed eggs or mashed bananas for instance - de riguer in baby books when they were tiny but banned these days). My kids slept on their stomachs which was the recommendation in the mid 70s, now they have to sleep on their backs. Experts seem tohave new ideas every few years from what I can see!

Every generation does what they think best for their children. Whooping cough, polio, scarlet fever and measles were commonplace when I was a child. Fortunately advancements in medicine have all but eradicated these childhood diseases - although they seem to have been replaced by others. I think that in this day and age when sales hype rules we are more and more seduced by the media who suggest to new parents that they not up to the mark if they don't buy the very latest things they produce. Some new products are great, others are nothing but expensive indulgences. Tee (daughter) is completely OTT where child care is concerned. This is the person who decided against a childminder and prefered a day care centre as the day car centre had pointed out to her that childminders have to leave the children unattended when they use the bathroom. She was nonplussed when I pointed out mums caring for their babies themselves would have the same problem! She calls out (and pays through the nose for) a doctor if their little boy has a sniffle. I know she somehow feels more righteous for having paid a lot of money for something than for having been inventive and resourceful. The amazing thing is that her Dad is a GP in the US, albeit in a different state. Personally I have no qualms about using him as a long distance medical point of reference and do so quite often but she prefers to pay out money which they can ill afford to do.

I think Ayvah will sleep perfectly well under her duvet (it has a tuck in flap at the bottom which will go under the mattress so she will be very unlikely to suffocate). She will sit in her high chair and be fed very safely, have a bath in the kitchen sink, probably be licked by the neighbour's dog and almost certainly come through unscathed. All H can remember from last year's visit is the glass of "wine" I gave her with dinner (grape juice), the wild raspberries we found in the woods, the frog we discovered living under a paving slab and the time the kitten pooed on her bed. I suppose that's better than being banned from doing anything in case she encounters "germs" at every turn!

[Sky]

You sound wonderful, keep on doing what you're doing.
Folk are brainwashed by manufacturers and so called child experts.
I have three children 22yrs, 16yrs and 9yrs and with each of them the experts gave different advise.
I 'sometimes' followed the advise and laid them on their back, on their side and on their front depending on what was considered right for that time.
Dummys were good, then evil vile things and then good again.
I had a baby bouncer for my first but by the second they were terrible things that put too much strain on a babys legs and made them bow.
And I had a baby nest for my first and shock horror a cot bumper and .... a duvet! by the time I had my second baby you were an unfit parent if you dared to use anything so terrible.

I used to ignore most of the experts advice and do what felt right to me.

My boys survived lol ... oh and I used a second hand cot, god forbid, which I hand painted and it had a second hand mattress .... I'll be sent to hell for that!

[Flo]

Remember that if fashions never changed and advice was never altered there would be little enough market for new items for children would there? Think of all the jobs that are being kept in existence

Vaccinations for the old and dangerous childhood diseases are great. Improvements in cleanliness are good as are the recognition that lead paint is dangerous and that fire retardant materials help.

But gosh - there has to be a dividing line somewhere. Living is dangerous.

[prison break fan]

I think you sound like lovely grandparents! They are lucky to have you! Does anyone remember Dr. Spock in the sixties? We all bought our babies up by his "bible" and then a few years later he changed his views about everything! Too late for our babies!! pbf.

[Uller]

I am getting the same sort of attitude - but from my mum! Given that she brought me and my sister up in the 70s when anti-bacterial had never been heard of, she is now obsessed.

She mentioned to me the other day that she had tried an environmentally friendly dishwasher rinse aid and thought it was awful. I don't have a dishwasher but told her that I know some people just use vinegar. She turned her nose up and said she thought that might damage the machine! She also turned her nose up when she stayed on Friday night and discovered that I now clean everything with white vinegar and bicarb - she didn't think that could possibly get anything clean. I showed her my sparkling bathroom and asked her what looked dirty, but she couldn't tell me!

[foodinistar]

I don't see her and her husband bringing their 18 month old son to visit us anytime soon.

Me neither. The sudden exposure to nature could be fatal.

Anyway, it is a well know fact that mankind became extinct several millennia ago and what passes for life now is really just a computer game played by Martians from their sterile world.

[Milims]

Shoot me! I'm a carp mother! When my daughter was a baby we went to a hotel and made her a cot in a drawer! She ate sand, drank water from the leaky washing machine pipe,shared ice cream with the dog, ate worms, played in a sink, ran round the garden naked - except for a liberal coating of body paint, fell asleep in the dog basket, cuddled the cat, and was obsessed with cleaning the toilet! Guess what - shes still alive - but sadly no longer obsessed with toilet cleaning!

[Millymollymandy]

Is that a typo or are you being polite - took me a while to understand what a carp mother was!

Sounds to me the right way to bring up children! Must ask my mum if I ever ate worms!