Our "Leaders" fail to lead - so what next

[mikey9]

Copenhagen appears to have failed to deliver something "binding, ambitious and fair" in any shape or form.

SO back to us then. Take hold of the problem - identify your reasons for doing something about it (mine are aged 14m and 3yrs) - and recognise the consequences of doing nothing. Get upset (watch http://www.ageofstupid.net for ideas.... then refocus.

1010 campaign - http://www.1010uk.org/

We aim to do exactly what (and more?) science suggests we need to do to control and stabilise runaway Global Warming. It looks like the people (civil society) are the only ones who are going to do anything about this (and some I have serious doubts about) - as we aren't getting leadership from those some people elected.

Prob need to get down to 1 tonne co2 per year - anyone know what 1 tonne of Co2 emissions actually equates to? If anyone else is interested - I am off to do the maths/google etc.

Doing nothing is NOT an option when you look at your (or other peoples) kids and consider that the choice in in your hands...............

[gdb]

mikey, do what you can, when you can.

i'd never say otherwise.

as to the leaders... is it really their fault?

until the majority of humanity is ready to accept that they will have to pay to make the necessary changes. that their lifestyles will have to change. no progess will ever be made.

there are too many loud voices. unpleasant, aggressive people with access to the media. with access to the funds of the political parties of whom those leaders are only the public face. liars - if you'll forgive me - who are shouting from the rooftops that "it is all a con".

and these unpleasant people will hold sway until we have major catastrophes to deal with.

sad. but true.

[mikey9]

I probably agree with your analysis of those in the media keeping us all NOT talking about this - the biggest problem we likely all face. Unfortunately I also recognise in the human race the traits of greed and selfishness.
I have long thought that the BIG catastrophes are the ones that will start people actually taking notice and doing something to save themselves - and the rest of us - all too late I am afraid.

So - learn new, valuable skills for the post peak oil, changing climate environment - identify what really matters and what may be useful when it all kicks off...... In the meantime enjoy yourselves...!

[old tree man]

Mikey all i can say is our leaders have always failed us when who ever is in power are only there to fill thier own coffers, just look around the world its very sad and at times it breaks my heart to see people suffering but as gdb said "do what you can when you can " thats all any of us can do

[jim]

with access to the funds of the political parties of whom those leaders are only the public face

Isn't that what Copenhagen has so clearly demonstrated?

Do what you can, it's all there is. And don't vote, it only encourages them,

Love and Peace
jim

[Big Al]

What struck me as very poingient was that there were 20,000+ delegates and politiciens at Cop15 then when you add on all the activists, protesters, media crews etc there must have been 40 - 50,000 people in Copenhargen that would not be normally live there. How did they get to Cop15 ? it certainly wasn't on the push bike or public transport was it !!

This was the one confrence that made me realise that this is just a massive jolly for those that know including the likes of FofE and Greenpeace (whom I support).
How much C02 did the confrence emit via the hotels, media transmissions, transport, electricity production, food cooking etc?

Sad as it is I know how to cook on wood, cloth my family from scrap material, hunt and gather food along with a host of other things that will be useful in the future when money isn't.

[oldfella]

Do what you can, it's all there is. And don't vote, it only encourages them,
jim[/quote

I have not voted for the last 20 years, as in my view 99.9 percent of Politicians are Liars, Thieves, and Power Hungry Ah,so's, so until the day comes when no one votes, and the whole damn system falls down, then WE can decide the rules and the way the country should be run, and WE the PEOPLE can hold the likes of Blair and Co to account.

Eddy

[KathyLauren]

Considering that all those delegates flew to Copenhagen (many on government jets that would not have been filled to capacity) and accomplished absolutely nothing, the most useful thing that the world's so-called leaders can to to combat global warming is to stay home next time!

anyone know what 1 tonne of Co2 emissions actually equates to?

I forget the details of how I did the calculation, but I figured out that, over the 19 years that I owned my previous car (a Honda Civic), it produced 31 tonnes of CO2. I drove it about half as much as a typical North American does. Over there in the UK, I expect folks drive a bit less, but maybe not.

Anyway, that's 1.6 tonnes per year just from driving. Home heating would have contributed a similar amount, I'm guessing, though I never did the arithmetic on that, and I no longer have the records for that period. Then, there is all the CO2 from manufacturing the "stuff" we consume, and transporting it all over the globe. One tonne per year would be quite an achievement.

Yes, it is up to us. It always was.

I should do an energy audit to see how much CO2 I am responsible for. We drive a lot less these days, we eat more locally-grown food, and we heat with locally-grown wood. The trees on our land probably remove more CO2 from the atmosphere than we produce by burning the wood.

[paul123456]

Hello there ,

luckily the next conference is in Mexico , seems the polution is really bad there , so that's why 50000
clowns are going to be flown in , add to the polution, hope they choke .

In Germany the electric prices are rising in January because of the rising prices to make green energy , a rise of 14 %.In Holland the price of electricity is going down by 20 % , WHAT A LOAD OF BULL DUNG , Holland and Germany are neighbours , the Dutch say thay are lowering the price due to falling oil prices ?

I think I've lost it , can't understand what game is being played .

But the Dutch people are going to pay less for electric , that'a a relieve for them , but then the Dutch government has decide to raise the taxes on electricity ! Which means their energy bill will stay the same .

What is it like in other countries , when we lived in Holland our energy bill was built up 0f 75 % taxes and other fees , only 25 % was really energy cost's.

If there is any country who should be worried about climate change , melting ice caps , it should be Holland ,
all the land under sea level , they'll get wet feet first.
Then the Dutch government declares they do not want the temperature to rise more than 2 degrees , do they think they can control the climate ? Probally think they are God .

Yeah let's just try and do what WE can ,

regards ,

Paul

[Minnesota]

Personally,
I don't believe all the hype that Human produced C02 is changing our climate.
I do believe our "Leaders" are using fear mongering to steal away freedom.

that said,
I have lived the "selfsufficientish" all my life, thanks to my parents. I have been a recycler before it was the fad in the US. I have had a compost pile before it was the fad in the US. I have had a large Garden all the 27 years of my adult life, and I helped with my parents garden the 18 years before that. I would consider myself an environmentalist if those who lead that movement weren't so radical. I do consider myself a conservationist. I only shop in thrift shops for second hand goods and clothing, most of my friends say how cheap I am...til they come by to borrow money. I have been a big fan of bicycling since I was a Lad.

So, Live like the earth and it's resources are precious, But don't spend any energy on the Hypocrites that are our "Leaders", except to vote the worst of them out of office.

[paul123456]

Hello there ,

just need to come back on this topic .

Re: Our "Leaders" fail to lead - so what next

As I see it "our leaders " ( not mine ) do lead us , to the slaughter house .
They pull the wool over our eyes with rubbish aqbout climate change .

As for an example , the co2 emmisions , the government of Holland gave the big industries a right of
tons of co2 emmisions , if they cut down on their emmissions they can sell it , if they come short they have to buy it , which means that there is a massive trade created around co2 .
They don't give it to other private people .
They turn the co2 emmission into a big money business .
That is all they are interested ,money , scaring the people about climate change , and then turning it
around to convert their lies into money.
What the hell did 50000 people do in Copenhagen , ecxept spend tax payers money ?

Thousands of years ago the UK was joined with France , until the icecaps melted , at that time 600k years ago
there where hardly any people around , or are the mamoths to be blamed .

Just everybody do their bit ,in their own capacity , and Ignore the leaders.

regards ,

Paul

[mikey9]

Cooor....that was a surprise
Well - given the massive evidence base saying we are responsible - with the agreement of a huge majority of scientists - and the agreement of most national scientific bodies - etc.
I thought the argument was over and now it was a case of what we should do to reduce the effect of our combined actions.

99% of scientists believe we are responsible but only 30% is of the public (media influence??).

As for Copenhagen being a "Jolly" - well for representatives of Government - generally yes (although I do reckon some of them - especially those threatened first - Maldives, South Pacific low lying islands, Bangladesh etc.. were working their socks off to try to get a meaningful agreement).
As for the environmental groups - well I don't know many who join and participate with their eye on a "Jolly" to anywhere. They tend to commit free time and their own money to causes they believe in and that are getting no public exposure otherwise. If you accept that there is an opportunity to lobby/campaign amongst those who make decsisions - then yes they should be there - how they get there pales into insignificance compared with any agreement that could have been reached.

I don't see the Government leading/inventing anything on CO2 emission rises - they don't have anything to gain from a collapse of the GDP led "Consume-consume-consume some more" economic model we live within. The threat seems to be backed through science - the timescales for danger for us (in Northern Europe) are not understood well - but first you have to identify what you consider to be "danger". Some food for thought here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF_anaVcCXg
http://www.storyofstuff.com
http://www.ageofstupid.net

I don't really think a head in the sand mentality is going to help anyone - it's a bit too late for that
Mike

[gdb]

99% of scientists believe we are responsible but only 30% is of the public (media influence??).

-----------

well, maybe not quite those figures but, by and large, yup, that's exactly it.

people want to believe they havent caused it, the media don't want to have the world change in any significant way - after all, they love their money - and so they tell the people what they want to hear "Global Warming Not Human fault".

part of the problem is that it is hard to see the evidence because it is in front of your face all the time: when i visit the UK (pretty rarely) i can see that the sky has a permanent brownishyellow haze and the air smells of fumes. even in the countyside. it didnt used to be like that. it ought not to be like that. it isnt like that out here. and the cause? human/traffic pollution. and it's so apparent, so dense and unnatural that it surely must affect local climatic conditions?

but my folk who live there dont see it. they dont smell it.

not because theyre daft or dont want to see it and smell it - but because its like that all the time. so they cant see - dont see - that it just isnt normal.

and so they put up with it.

and you can take that same 'cant see the wood for the trees' and apply it worldwide.

most people can't see what the fuss is about. even when it is there right in front of them.

[KathyLauren]

the media don't want to have the world change in any significant way - after all, they love their money - and so they tell the people what they want to hear

True enough. But don't discount the idea that there might be an organized campaign of disinformation. Big Oil and other corporate interests have a vested interest in having people do nothing to stop global warming.

(Yikes! Now I'm starting to sound like a conspiracy nutter. )

[crowsashes]

ah but your right KeithBC, its the same with the selling off of excess co2 emissions credits, its another way to make money and gain control.

we may both start sounding like a conspiracy theory nutter ( or could it be the media making us out to be daft simply because we are right ) but its true, never believe the media, you need to go out there and research everything for yourself. the biggest control the government etc has over us is through controlling our spending ( increasing taxes not just through council tax, income tax etc but through VAT)

we are all stepping aside from this ( by being self-sufficent) and now only have to spend if its absolutely essential ( eg you cant make your own pair of shoes) and can see the system with all its faults.

the only way we can do anything is to do it ourselves as the world has this idea that "someone else will do it"
its the small changes that help, a friend of mine worked out the savings (money and co2 emissions) just from baking your own bread. add up all those little savings and we are in fact doing a fair bit ! and its all we can do as well as teaching others our way of life