Removing Vinyl (?) Windows

[Boots]

Not sure if anyone here might be able to clue me in on this?

I am considering pulling out some windows and re-using them in another area... BUT.... buggered if I can work out how to get them out!

They are what I think are referred to as vinyl frames... they look like painted aluminium, but some googling suggests they may actually be some sort of hard PVC. They are generally used in colourbond sheds, if that helps anyone... (not sure if you have that over in the UK, but Nev will know what I am on about, I think, and may be able to translate or correct me)

I can see no screws whatsoever, and am beginning to think they are somehow just glued into the frame. I can see slight signs of a brown substance on the inside sill, and on the outside I can see silastic under the trim. Is it possible the windows could just sit in the sill with glue???

Sites I have checked suggest vinyl windows are installed with 2 screws in the centre of the uprights, but there are definately none to found.

If this is the case, what are the chances of removing and reusing these windows? Has anyone done this? Am thinking I could try butting them out from the inside with a block of wood and a rubber mallet, but am not sure the glue will give and am afraid I may twist them. They are very tight and any attempt to slide something between the window and the frame would probably damage it, I think. I can't see any other way though... Am I missing something here?

[Millymollymandy]

PVC windows are common this side of the world too. They are normally screwed in, I think.

[Muddypause]

'S tricky to answer comprehensively. I've no real idea what building techniques are common in your part of the world, but here's what I have seen in the UK. They could be plastic coated ally (it's very difficult to make normal paint stick to aluminium, so it is often plastic coated in the factory with a thin, paint-like layer of heat-fused plastic that can give a long lasting finish), or they could be uPVC. They could even be uPVC with ally inserts.

Most replacement frames these days would be fixed as you suggest with a couple of big screws in the uprights. These screws may be hidden in the glass rebate, of behind a screwcap, or some other trim, and they may be supplimented with some kind of gap-filling foam, or even supplanted by it altogether, so they are just glued in. Expanding polyurethane foam is often used for this, though there are other variations on the theme. But I can't see the foam/glue trick going back much more that ten years or so. More traditionally, mortar, and/or mastic would have been used to fill the gap.

But if they are original built-in windows, then the actual fasteners (possibly fitted from the outside of the frame before it is installed) could be burried in the bricks and mortar (or other structural material). In effect the house was built around the frames. Window frames have crafty rebates around the outside edges, too, so that they get very intimate with the mortar around them, and become rigidly fixed when it dries. It is also possible that the frame has its own patent fixing system - these can be a bugger if you don't know what the patent method is. Truth is, usually when a frame is taken out for replacement, no thought is given to preserving the old frame, so it is easiest to remove it by destroying it.

But it's probably worth a bit of exploration first. Most wondows are actually made slightly smaller than the reveal they fit in, so if you can remove whatever it is that fills the gap (mortar, foam, mastic, or some combination of them, sometimes hidden behind a strip of trim) all around the frame, you will probably be ably to get a better idea. Get hold of a plugging chisel, which is a narrow-bladed cold chisel, and chip away at it. If you manage to free up a gap, and you find fixers holding it, a big hacksaw blade will usually dispense with them. And it still may require a modicum of brute force.

If there really is no gap, it may be worth raking out some of the motar courses immediately adjacent to the window to see if you find some fixers buried in them. But it may be that destruction is the only way to do it. Maybe sacrificing one window will reveal what is holding it, and clue you in on how to do the rest.

[Cheezy]

Wow Muddy for a guy who starts his answer with:

"'S tricky to answer comprehensively"

You do a bloody good job!

As a person whose put in a few UPVC windows in my time your spot on.

Question is how old is the house and window? if less than say 10 years they could be PVC which are cliped into a built in system called cavity closure. Very hard to over come, you'd have to break them.

Pre that and the windows are newish they must be replacement, then as Muddy says the most likely way of fitting is to put the approx frame into the hole, pack it with space's, screw it into the brickwork, from the inside where the glass is going to be. Then you put the glass in and you can't see the screws. Then you fill the gaps aroundt he frame and wall with "bodge"

So in principal you need to remove the glass. This is where you need to find out if you are internally beaded (useful) or externally beaded. If it's internal then you pop out the beading holding in the glass, (careful!), then remove the glass, check for screws if you have them bingo.
But if you're externally beaded unless the window was fitted over 15 years ago it'll be sealed with security tape, to stop burglers removing the beading, then the window to gain access to your house. If it predates this then you might be able to remove the external beading ,cos they hadn't cottoned on to what burglers where doing in those days!

Wait a second while I think on, don't know if in Aus you have English type casement windows, ie there is a side opening at one end of the frame, if you open the window, can you see screws into the surrounding frame into the brickwork? May save you trying to pull out the glass

(spot the British Plastics Federation Window Committee member...god my life is dull.)

[Muddypause]

spot the British Plastics Federation Window Committee member.

So if I call you fenestrator, you won't take it the wrong way?

[Boots]

Thanks Guys,
Decided to try a salvage yard today and found some similar ones. It does look as though they were simply glued in...being out, its easier to see that there are no actual screws or holes for screws, just lots of silastic.

I bought them and am so stoked.... $12 for two beauties!!!!!

Problem now solved.

[Cheezy]

Muddy said:
[/quote]So if I call you fenestrator, you won't take it the wrong way?[/quote]

Not at all , though I would have to give you a practical lesson on where the term came from...vis Prague where one particular King when vexed used to throw the offending person out of his castle window, to meet thay maker several hundred feet below.

Hence the term " de-fenestration"

[Wombat]

Sorry Boots, I only just got here (late again!) but i am glad everything turned out OK!

Nev

[Boots]

Come on Nev, #1 Poster and all... Ya slipping mate!

[Wombat]