"I was wrong about veganism"

[Turtuga Blanku]

An interesting article...

I was wrong about veganism. Let them eat meat – but farm it properly

[...]If pigs are fed on residues and waste, and cattle on straw, stovers and grass from fallows and rangelands – food for which humans don't compete – meat becomes a very efficient means of food production. Even though it is tilted by the profligate use of grain in rich countries, the global average conversion ratio of useful plant food to useful meat is not the 5:1 or 10:1 cited by almost everyone, but less than 2:1. If we stopped feeding edible grain to animals, we could still produce around half the current global meat supply with no loss to human nutrition: in fact it's a significant net gain.

It's the second half – the stuffing of animals with grain to boost meat and milk consumption, mostly in the rich world – which reduces the total food supply. Cut this portion out and you would create an increase in available food which could support 1.3 billion people. [....]

Read all of the article here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... orestation

What do you think?

Cheers,

Turtuga Blanku

[oldjerry]

Thanks for putting this up,it's really thought -provoking,I've a lot of time for Monbiot,any thing that changes his mind has to be worth reading,and luckily I've got a birthday coming up.

[123sologne]

I just cannot believe this.... I was talking about this with my husband the other day. My idea would be to review all land and say here we can plant, here we can have animals etc... I thought of it with my own country and laugh my head off as I thought the Normandy region would not be amused by my idea to get rid of all the cows there to produce only vegetable and wheat for the humans... After all Normandy is one of the top production region for cheese, therefore there are lots of cows there! I would send the cows to Auvergne where it is a bit more difficult to grow things. I know I am a bit extreme sometimes!
Anyway this article is so refreshing, and I think it is the perfect tool to use against that mad 8000 cows farm they want to build in Lincolnshire.

[jim]

Makes perfect sense, economiclay and morally. A low meat diet is more suited to the human digestive system than meat heavy or meat free. The benefits in terms of health, nutrition, environment and more equitable distribution of resources are obvious,

Love and Peace
Jim

[Turtuga Blanku]

Thanks for putting this up,it's really thought -provoking,I've a lot of time for Monbiot,any thing that changes his mind has to be worth reading,and luckily I've got a birthday coming up.

Yeah, I'm thinking of ordering the book as well: Meat: A Benign Extravagance - Simon Fairlie

@123sologne - From what I understand, the Auvergne has got quite a lot of cows already (mostly for meat?). We simply need less cows globally :)

[oldjerry]

. We simply need less cows globally :)[/quote]


We simply need more thought....... globally.

[Turtuga Blanku]

We simply need less cows globally :)

We simply need more thought....... globally.

What do you mean?

[oldjerry]

You know,normal stuff......half the world starving,the other half throwing food away, green beans in little bags flown from Kenya to T***o, etc, etc ,(I 'm not saying plan globally EXACTLY the opposite).I've had too much time on my hands recently,maybe thinking ain't so good.

[123sologne]

I think I understand you... None of us here can go and say to Africans how they should live and what they should eat. They already have so little to eat in some parts. They will never be Vegans as it would be impossible for them (in some countries anyway). As for the food grown there and brought here to end up in a skip because it is so called "passed dated" (another issue I know, but I have to mention it), that makes me sick every time I see it. And I have seen it many many times!
Our western world is sick and we keep on trying to tell others to do it our way. What Simon Fairlie says is probably the truth of truth and that is why I say that a mix diet is good, but as more of us exist on this planet it needs some serious thought. I was probably wrong when I thought of moving the cows of Normandy to Auvergne, so this is maybe a better example: In this country you will not grow food in Dartmoor, while sheep can graze happily there. There are other part of land where growing vegs or wheat or even fruit trees will not work, having animals there for food does not seam such a bad idea as long as we do not supplement their diet.
Now imagine how much wheat will have to be produced to feed those 8000 cows in that mad farm they want to make in Lincolnshire!!!

[123sologne]

I think I understand you... None of us here can go and say to Africans how they should live and what they should eat. They already have so little to eat in some parts. They will never be Vegans as it would be impossible for them (in some countries anyway). As for the food grown there and brought here to end up in a skip because it is so called "passed dated" (another issue I know, but I have to mention it), that makes me sick every time I see it. And I have seen it many many times!
Our western world is sick and we keep on trying to tell others to do it our way. What Simon Fairlie says is probably the truth of truth and that is why I say that a mix diet is good, but as more of us exist on this planet it needs some serious thought. I was probably wrong when I thought of moving the cows of Normandy to Auvergne, so this is maybe a better example: In this country you will not grow food in most of Dartmoor, while sheep can graze happily there. There are other part of land where growing vegs or wheat or even trees will not work, having animals there for food does not seam such a bad idea as long as we do not supplement their diet. Actually I think these animal are also good at keeping the landscape into "shape" and they help the smaller animal thriving there, so perfect solution for everybody. (Am I wrong again?)
Now imagine how much wheat will have to be produced to feed those 8000 cows in that mad farm they want to make in Lincolnshire!!!

[MuddyWitch]

You could also add to the argument the fact that in a GOOD rotation animals clear up fields & then dung said fields if allowed to, much improving the fertillity. Underplanting wheat with a grass crop for a three year 'grass break' was part of the old way of doing things.

In our 'modern' farming systems we coop animals up in horrendous battery systems divorcing them from the land. We then cause ourselve the extra work of fetching the feed to the animal and removing it's dung back to the land...why?!!!

MW

[oldjerry]

[quote="MuddyWitch"]You could also add to the argument the fact that in a GOOD rotation animals clear up fields & then dung said fields if allowed to, much improving the fertillity. Underplanting wheat with a grass crop for a three year 'grass break' was part of the old way of doing things.

In our 'modern' farming systems we coop animals up in horrendous battery systems divorcing them from the land. We then cause ourselve the extra work of fetching the feed to the animal and removing it's dung back to the land...why?!!!

You're absolutely right,but there are some positives,however small.The majority of eggs are now produced on free range systems (in the not too distant future batteries will be outlawed in the UK).Farrowing crates are outlawed,and the majority of NEW pig set ups are free range.These small victories however have come from consumer pressure,and given the situation now ,i.e.skint people are to become even more skint,maybe the demand for cheap food will mean the pendulum will swing the other way.( it cant be long before some 'entrepreneur' realises that an empty car plant would make a great 'dairy factory').

[cocobelle]

Some really good points made above. What bothers me slightly though is people who are skint claiming they have to buy unethical food cos they can't afford free range or whatever. I have to say, I am relatively skint for a person living in the developed world, as in I own nothing, but I owe a fair amount (student loans etc). Although i have to say, I am lucky enough to be employed at minimum wage, most of my money goes on rent, but I would rather eat just vegetables, which I might add are cheap, than factory farmed meat or battery eggs.

[gregorach]

Good to see. Far too many people take the worst case-scenario for meat rearing in the USA and then claim that those figures apply to all meat produced in the entire world.