Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Tigerhair]

Josh and I went to the local indoor play centre today - makes a change from the park. There was a boy there, older than Josh who was a right bully. I watched him push and thump three other boys during the time we were there, so I decided to keep Josh out of the way. I also kept an eye on his Grannie (she must have been). She completely ignored him - only telling him off if another child made a fuss. She never once paid him attention when he was being good. I might sound high and mighty, but I try and ignore Josh's naughties, and make a big fuss of him when he's good and he is a good boy most of the time! He certainly doesn't hit!
Anyway, Josh walked passed him and this boy pushed a padded dangling pole into Josh and hurt his neck. Josh started crying so I picked him up and took him over to Grannie who was already saying, "It wasn't my boy"... I said "could he say sorry because he hurt my boy?" the little boy then said "sorry" and I thought that was the end of it... however, Grannie said "he didn't mean to hurt him, why should he say sorry"... so I said "but he did hurt him, even if it was an accident, he should say sorry, and he did, so that's OK".... she started saying "that's ridiculous" so I, perhaps wrongly, said "I've watched you and you've not paid him any attention all morning, perhaps you should speak to him once in a while, praise him".. I was quite calm, but she was having a right rant. Anyway, I walked away and comforted Josh and a few mins later she left, but I am still mad. Surely it's right to say sorry even if you hurt someone accidentally? Any way, feel a bit better now I have had a rant.

I guess I shouldn't have said the rest of it... but anyway!

Grrrrrrrr

[Shirley]

Hugs chuck....

What an awful experience but GOOD on you for keeping your cool but yet still standing your ground. I bet she felt about an inch high as she walked out of that door.

I think you were within your rights to say what you said... but think you incredibly brave to have done so... let's hope some of your words will sink in and that poor child will get some much needed attention.

I wish I could say that Jonathan doesn't hit and scratch - he does... but not generally to other children. I'm assured it's a phase... hahaha... another one!!!!

Anyway - you did good today

[glenniedragon]

Well done Tigz, I think you are spot on- even if it was an accident a 'sorry' is the appropriate response. All you can hope is that it comes back to bite them in the future- imagine that thug as a teenager...shudder....I have every hope that Josh is going to turn out a polite, productive, popular human being. You rant away me duck!

kind thoughts
Deb

[Magpie]

I'd have to say my children are much more likely to say sorry (and mean it!) if it was an accident, rather than on purpose...

[Tigerhair]

Thanks guys... I felt kinda indignant and cross and a little embarrassed, but if I don't stick up for him (and good manners) who will!?
Calmed a little (thanks to wine and cheesecake!)

[ina]

Which makes a lot more sense, too! If I'd done something on purpose - not that I punch a lot of folks any more at my advanced age and maturity - why should I apologise - that would negate the effect!
Your kids are showing lots of intelligence!

But I know that a lot of people - adults, too - don't see it that way. Have experienced it myself and been quite upset about it...

[AnnetteR]

Apparently Grannie thinks that saying your sorry is some kind of punishment and admittance of guilt, instead of an act of kindness and consideration. More parents need to set such a good example for their children. Though I do not at all approve of children running so wild even in a play area. A play area is a fine place for parents to teach their children to be considerate of others, but most parents just let their children run with wild abandon. As a matter of fact I've seen many a parent jump in with the children and also run with wild abandon, often to the detriment of other children that are trying to play.

[circlecross]

I tend to give the badly behaved children a tickingo ff myself if no parental intervention is forthcoming, but I do work in a pre-school aswell, so it kind of comes naturally (ds is gonna hate me in a few years..."aw mum you're soooo embarrassing...").

There is one girl who is in ds's swim session and she is a complete monster, not just to my little 'un, but to everyone, but she seemed to single mine out for a bit. She snatches, hits, hits again and pushes over. When the mum can be bothered to get off her backside and trundle over it is invariably to wheedle "say sorry" and then it's all ok. But it's not because the child just thinks "I say sorry, and that's it". Last week this child went too far even for mum (who is now pregnant with twins, shudder), and she removed her from the session. I saw her yesterday sitting alone in the cafe and when I asked her if she was coming downstairs to the paly session she said she had decided to bar her child. So this child will never learn to share, or to realise consequences to actions, as sorry doesn't mean anything without explanation or sanctions.

I applaud you for standing your ground, some parents (and indulgent grandparents) just can't or won't accept that their child may be being anti-social. It helps your child too, to see that actions have consequences.

I took my ds to the preschool where I work, and was dreading it. I needn't have. Although the youngest there, he played well with the older children, shared, stood his ground and fitted in with the routine well. he got tired towards the end and we had some tears, but I was so proud of him. Especially compared to the other monsters we have there!

That went on a bit!

Susan

[glenniedragon]

It does make you wonder about the role models some kids seem to have...are my generation (those born late 60's early 70's) responsible? were the society changes that our parents went through result in a more 'easy going' method of parenting (much needed after the 50's) and we have continued that trend even further to the point of role reversal within the family?.....I see adults behaving terribly-even with their children in tow, swearing pushing and behaving rudely what are their children learning?
My eldest (5) held the door to the Library open the other day for a mum with a pushchair, and she didn't even acknowledge him, he said in his loud-5-year-old way "that lady didn't say thank you" and I saw her colour but even then didn't say thank you.....and I didn't say shhh to him either...I hope she went home and thought about what her little one had learnt from that encounter....

Kind thoughts
Deb

[Tensing]

I think you did very well to control yourself, as did your son.

My son would have given the grandmother a mounthfull for not controlling her child/grandchild.

[Tigerhair]

Thanks again guys. I am pleased that you agree with me because I did wonder if I had done the right thing. I guess I managed to keep my cool because Josh was there. I was holding him and afterwards he said "naughty boy". And I explained that he was but he had said sorry and that Josh and I should hope that he won't do it again to another child.

I would actually expect Josh to apologise if he hit another child on purpose - because it is wrong and I expect he would have done it because he found it difficult to control his emotions. I find it hard sometimes and grouch at Daddy - and Josh tells me off - "naughty Mummy". I say sorry to Daddy (and bring the subject up later!!! Albeit with a cooler head!) and explain that I wasn't being nice and I would try harder. We try NOT to argue in front of him but to be honest my parents NEVER did and I found it very hard to control myself for a long time because I rebelled against this. I wanted to see that others in my family had emotions and it wasn't just me!

Oh I'll shut up now!

[Milims]

I hope no-one minds me ressurecting this one - but first of all I'd like to add my well dones to Josh and his mum. I truly believe that its really important to teach our children good manners and consideration of others. My two have always been told that they can do exactly what they want to do provided that it doesn't have an adverse effect on other people! It certainly makes them stop and think before they act - and they are more aware of how their behaviour affects those around them.
My other reason for bringing this one back to life is to seek a little advice.
Each year my friend and I hold a halloween party for our kids and their friends - parents included. That way we can celebrate halloween and avoid the horrid trick or treating thing. This year the party was in our home. I'd made sure that there was plenty of lemonade for the kids and made a wine punch for the grown ups. My friends son (whos 10) decided to help himself to the punch. His mum told him no - and he ignored her and poured himself a glass - in front of his father, who seemed amused by his sons antics. Chris and I were mortified and told him in no uncertain terms to stop - he ignored us too and downed the glass. At this point Chris told him loud and clear that if he'd had his way he would have made him drink enough to make him sick and when he was he'd have to clean himself up because his mother didn't deserve to have to do that and that we did not welcome such disrespectful behaviour in our home. During this the parents were pretty much standing back and watching. The boy then stomped tearfully into the other room where he was comforted by his father. The thing is it seems that my friend is not speaking to us now - we had a bonfire party/bbq last night and they didn't turn up and she hasn't returned my calls etc......
I can understand that she is probably embarrassed that we told her son off - but we did it with the best intentions and with the caring that we would give our own child. To us the boy was doing something potentially very dangerous and being completely disrespectful to his parents and to the rules of our home and since he was ignoring them and he was in our home we felt justified in stepping in.
This isn't the first incident of this type and I feel very sad that the little boy who has brought us joy in the past and was my sons first friend in the village, who has been the catalyst to friendships between his sister and my daughter and between his mum and me is turning out to be such a horror. I'm not his mum and in no way want to take over but rather to add support to her - on numerous occasions she has asked for advice from us or used us as a sounding board. Have we over stepped the mark?
Helen and Chris

[circlecross]

It is unfortunate, but this child needs boundaries. If the parents are nervous about being parents rather than mates, it is other parents who will suffer the consequences, so the sooner it is nipped in the bud the better.

I had ANOTHER encounter with an idiot parent - she was sitting in a cafe, which has an area for kids to play in, and ds was there, playing nicely when she arrived with a menagerie of rather unpleasant children who proceeded to snidely push my ds, ignore him or sarcastically say "hello" to him when he said "hello!" in a small exuberant way. I let a lot of this go, as a bit of pushing and shoving is normal in children's play. It was when one of the older boys made a fist and deliberately punched my ds in his head that I said up and bellowed at this brat "You do NOT punch my child!" The mother managed to stop braying with hewr chums, and drag her nose out of her latte, and said "What is going on?" and I said "Your child has hit my child in the head" "Well you should speak to me, not him" "He did the punching, I think that I should speak to him about it" blah blah blah anyway, I was told that her child couldn't have hit, because he had a good report from school, was "only 5yrs old" and then she said "what did he do, he must have deserved to be hit" (he's 2). I didn't back down, and told her how ludicrous her reasoning was (so he's good at finding minibeasts, that means he is a model citizen???) etc. I couldn't believe she simply REFUSED to accept that her child may have been capable of hitting, I mean MY child hits, it is a learning process, but the difference is, I intervene, and I keep half an eye on him when he plays, so I am aware if he is getting out of control (which up till now he rarely does).
It does make you shake with rage, and I felt like shaking HER with rage. Oh well, I'm sure that in a years time his school report will be saying "bully".

[dibnah]

You did the right thing and getting on your high horse now and again is no bad thin either.

[Stonehead]

I had ANOTHER encounter with an idiot parent - she was sitting in a cafe, which has an area for kids to play in, and ds was there, playing nicely when she arrived with a menagerie of rather unpleasant children who proceeded to snidely push my ds, ignore him or sarcastically say "hello" to him when he said "hello!" in a small exuberant way. I let a lot of this go, as a bit of pushing and shoving is normal in children's play. It was when one of the older boys made a fist and deliberately punched my ds in his head that I said up and bellowed at this brat "You do NOT punch my child!" The mother managed to stop braying with hewr chums, and drag her nose out of her latte, and said "What is going on?" and I said "Your child has hit my child in the head" "Well you should speak to me, not him" "He did the punching, I think that I should speak to him about it" blah blah blah anyway, I was told that her child couldn't have hit, because he had a good report from school, was "only 5yrs old" and then she said "what did he do, he must have deserved to be hit" (he's 2). I didn't back down, and told her how ludicrous her reasoning was (so he's good at finding minibeasts, that means he is a model citizen???) etc. I couldn't believe she simply REFUSED to accept that her child may have been capable of hitting, I mean MY child hits, it is a learning process, but the difference is, I intervene, and I keep half an eye on him when he plays, so I am aware if he is getting out of control (which up till now he rarely does).
It does make you shake with rage, and I felt like shaking HER with rage. Oh well, I'm sure that in a years time his school report will be saying "bully".

I had a situation like this. I took my mobile out and started dialling. The mother involved said, "What are you doing?". I said "Calling a mate of mine in social services, he'll be quite interested to look at the video footage", pointing up at the inevitable camera.

She went very quiet, became profusely apologetic and took little bozo firmly but very carefully by the hand, and left.

Actually, I was just dialling my home phone number...