Cosmetics regulations and all that

[Green Aura]

A cautionary tale for those of you who may be thinking about going into business selling soaps, cosmetics etc.

Yesterday I received a questionnaire from the Trading Standards arm of the Council, checking I'm compliant with the legislation. I've been trading for four years safe in the knowledge that I've been compliant but it appears I might not be! And it may even put me out of business.

What makes my products (soaps particularly) different from others is that I blend essential oils/botanicals etc to meet specific skincare requirements. There's nothing on the label to suggest this and I very carefully don't make any claims for the soaps. I do, however, have a list on the wall next to my soap display stating what properties the ingredients have - otherwise would you buy a sh1t brown bar of soap unless you knew it contained anti-acne oils and blackstrap molasses that can aid skin healing?

Truth to tell, of course, I'm probably sailing pretty close to the wind here but have always felt I'm compliant. Seeing the stark question - do you manufacture aromatherapy products? and how do you classify them - cosmetic or medicinal? How do I answer? I'm finding this all really scary.

I fear I may have to remove much of my product list (including my herbal skin salve which is fantastic!) - I could cry. Especially as I've spent well over a thousand pounds for safety assessments that allow me to make these kind of products - I'm an aromatherapist, I don't want to just sell bars of lavender soap - everyone does that!

Sorry folks, I needed a moan. The good news is that work on the bakery is cracking on apace so if Green Aura goes belly up I'll still be able to make bread - until I find out which Regs I fall foul of there.

I'm seriously thinking of taking up knitting and crocheting - Trading Standards haven't got to them yet have they?

[becks77]

So sorry to hear this Maggie,
you've worked soo hard to make this work too
Hope all turns out well

As for
"I'm seriously thinking of taking up knitting and crocheting - Trading Standards haven't got to them yet have they?" you only have to try and buy second hand knitting needles in the charity shops round here.......

[MKG]

There is a whole world of difference between saying "This is good for acne" and "This is good soap. Some people say that one of its ingredients is good for acne". Make the first statement and you are treating and claiming efficacy (and then try to prove it ). Make the second statement and you are selling a cosmetic soap which happens to contain an ingredient which other people claim efficacy for.

As long as it works as soap and the added ingredient is not harmful (and as long as you're preparing that ingredient yourself rather than buying it in pre-prepared form from an uncontrolled third party), and as long as you are not making unsubstantiated claims for your soap (and anecdotal evidence doesn't count, I'm afraid) then, as far as I understand the legislation, you're within the law.

A lot of people think this is a very fine line - I'm not one of them. If I walked into your shop and you TOLD me that your soap was good for acne, I'd expect it to be as controlled as any other topical medicine. If you merely gave me information which enabled me to make up my own mind, then that's a different kettle of fish. Having a list which told me ONLY about your ingredients may lead me to believe that you're guiding me. Having a list which told me about all of your ingredients plus other herbal material not necessarily in your products would lead me to believe that you're being informative.

Hope that helps - it's confused the life out of me

Mike

[bonniethomas06]

Sorry to hear that as well Maggie. But I am sure that your reputation must preceede you, so even if you have to re-word the bumpf to satisfy the silly niggly penpushers, your customers will know what you mean? Could you get loyal customers to write testamonials that you could put on your website saying what the product did for them?'

And surely they can't know about what you verbally tell your clients in the shop?

Good luck anyway, I really admire your entrepreneurial spirit.

[wildbee]

Isn't this purely an issue of whether or not you are registered/'qualified' to sell medicinal products as apposed to cosmetic ones, not about if they actually work.

I don't really see how listing some of the well documented healing properties of essential oils can be called making unsubstantiated claims. Anyway, calling a soap 'Acne Soap' and saying 'Suitable for spot-prone skin' is not claiming that the soap treats acne.

Goodluck with the questionnaire.

[MKG]

I don't really see how listing some of the well documented healing properties of essential oils can be called making unsubstantiated claims.

It isn't, unless you're claiming something that hasn't been proved. Well-documented counts for nothing. The Bible is well documented, but try sacrificing your youngest son and you'll be in trouble.

Anyway, calling a soap 'Acne Soap' and saying 'Suitable for spot-prone skin' is not claiming that the soap treats acne.

Oh yes it is - if only by implication. Acne Soap is a title designed to give a certain impression. As for "suitable" etc., anyone claiming that shouldn't be too surprised when someone asks for the clinical test results which back up that statement.

Mike

EDIT: Please note that I'm not attacking GA at all, as I believe her to be an honest woman who is obviously very good at what she does. If she told me it's good for acne, I'd believe her. But if A. N. Other, with whom I'd had no experience, tried to sell me a lump of stone by claiming that it attracted good vibes, my woo alarm would go off. The current laws are designed to protect people less cynical than am I. Some of them are in bad need of protection from irresponsible woo merchants.

[Graye]

I hope you negotiate a way around these regs, I get so fed up with people whose sole job seems to make my life difficult and for no discernible reason. I suppose I have room to moan, being a dreaded ex Tax Inspector though. At least I saw the light...

But that leads me to something else. Someone has said here that no one knows what you say to customers in the shop. But be wary here, I'm not sure what TSA get up to but certainly HMRC go in for anonymous "test visits", and "test eats" in restaurants. In my experience this is more to test for cash sales and so on but TSA might do the same for their own ends too? I always cringe when I pay over cash for something and the person receiving it winks and says "we won't tell the taxman!" little knowing or thinking that it might be a taxman they are dealing with. Last time I looked they actually go out and live normal lives once they are out of the office! I always feel like giving them the suggestion they be more careful but then think it will probably be the last I see of a hard won tradesman if I do.

Back to cosmetics though. Is there some sort forum where this is talked through? It must be something others need to work around?

[wildbee]

MKG, are we discussing the difference between common sense/decency and the law?
You would expect something you buy to do what it says on the tin, but is it required by law to be proven to work? Asking for someone (anyone) to back up any claim is perfectly reasonable, but evidence is not proof. I'm sure lots of big cosmetics companies spend incomprehensible amounts of money providing evidence that their products do so and so. Just because there was a clinical trial does that make what they claim true? I've seen products that say 'dermatologicaly tested' and yet they contain ingredients known to be toxic, and some even carcinogenic. Yes they tested it dermatologically, and who knows what the results were. They have implied that means it is safe but it isn't the case.

Your post didn't read like you were on the attacking anyone but I don't think trading standards are checking up on whether the soaps are proven to have medical benefits. More likely whether GA is licensed to make such claims. No the law is not there to protect people who don't do their own research.

I found craftsforum a good one for tips and advice

[MKG]

You bring up a very good point. I've spent a couple of hours reading around the subject and the outcome is that it is not at all clear whether the 2008 law makes it incumbent upon a claimant to prove the claim to be true or for the TSA to prove it to be false. Interesting - but there's bound to be a test case sooner or later. The law merely states that it will be an offence to make a false claim if financial gain is the outcome. How much common sense will be applied is up for grabs.

But, of course, the law has never dealt with absolute truth - merely the balance of available evidence suggesting that something is more or less likely to be the truth until the point of "beyond reasonable doubt" is reached. In this case, GA has made a point of saying that she never makes specific claims (which is precisely what the 2008 law was intended to prevent). But that list of the properties of the ingredients could be construed as a claim for the product, (especially if those properties include "folk knowledge" given as fact), depending upon how it is presented. If that list says "ingredient X cures acne" then there may be a problem. If it says that one of the ingredients of the soap has been traditionally associated with the treatment of acne then the position is less clear. If it says that and there is also a disclaimer stating that no such claims are made for the soap, then the position is much more defensible.

I'm sure that just about anyone searching for a herbal remedy would know about the current legislation and would be able to read the situation in GA's shop accordingly - there's the real common sense in the matter. But I disagree that the law is not there to protect people who don't do their own research - I think that's precisely why it's there. If that's not true, then it's going to be paradise for snake oil salesmen.

I'm reminded of an old advert - "You'll look a little lovelier each day with fabulous pink Camay". That was an outrageously false statement, the kind of thing which was banned long before the 2008 Unfair Trading Regulations came into being. You can still buy the soap, though.

Mike

EDIT: By the way, GA, what I'm saying is that you tell 'em that your stuff is cosmetic and then take a long, hard look at the wording on that list. As an e.g. such a statement as "In the 17th century, Nicholas Culpeper said that ... " couldn't possibly be faulted, as it would be true. One of the "tests" mentioned in the legislation is to determine if your statements would tend to change the purchasing habit of your customers. Someone walking into a shop selling herbal products is very likely to be looking for a herbal product. Unless you have a big sign - inside or outside - saying "Get Yer Spotty Removal Kit Here" then your customer base is likely to be herbal-minded and buy accordingly.

[boboff]

It's all rubbish!

Running a Food Business we had allot to do with Trading Standards in general, and I honestly must say, that provided your intentions are correct, they will do all they can to help.

You understand the law, and I expect most if not all of you customers understand what they are buying.

Don't worry, answer honestly when your on ground you are sure of, be vague when you are not so sure, ask their advice, big them up,smile, but if they talk about things you are not happy about, then do not role over and bake rolls, argue the toss, believe it or not I would Bet you are more clued up on all this than they are.

Given allot of skin complaints are bacteria related, and allot of herbs ( including lavender) have an anticeptic quality, then if you make lavender soap, and it helps spots, and makes you smell like your Gran at Christmas, oh I don't know, these people are idiots, we are all idiots, EU rules on Agency staff, we opposed the rule, it got passed, who is the first country to put into law.... yes us, IDIOTS we are.

[Susie]

I wonder how big cosmetics companies get round regulations so they can flat-out lie about their products? e.g. combats seven signs of ageing etc, gives you younger looking skin etc. I suppose they pay people to carry out really crap pointless research and then they can point to that?

GA, if you're not making claims (and I'm sure you're not, I bet you know what you're doing) - are you definitely going to have problems? Might Trading Standards not work with you to change the wording or something? I really hope it'll be ok for you.

[Green Aura]

Thanks for the replies folks.

I had a look back at my safety assessment and it says

The essential oils [listed - and I stick strictly to these] all have a history of safe use in skin care applications and
their use at these amounts is supported by safety data on file.

this was done by an Government-approved biochemist.

answer honestly when your on ground you are sure of, be vague when you are not so sure

- I would boboff but unfortunately they're all yes/no questions and that, I think, is the really scary bit.

All my products are within my safety test specifications and are well-researched and tried before getting to the shelves. They're labelled according to the Regs (except, I've just found out on this questionnaire, they're now supposed to be on waterproof labels which is another expense) with clear ingredients, instructions on how to use and/or when to use by. In short, they're as safe as (and probably a whole lot safer) than anything you'd find on a supermarket shelf.

I've had a long chat with my less emotional OH and the upshot is that I think I can honestly answer yes to all the questions with a few, thankfully very minor, revisions of my marketing strategy for next year (I'm shut now until Easter 2012). So, fingers crossed folks - if I've f*cked it up the maximum penalty is £5k fine and/or 6 months in chokey!

[MKG]

So, fingers crossed folks - if I've f*cked it up the maximum penalty is £5k fine and/or 6 months in chokey!

Well done, GA. In any case, at this stage in the implementation of the legislation, it would be more likely to be a polite notice to put minor points right.

Mike

[MKG]

I wonder how big cosmetics companies get round regulations so they can flat-out lie about their products? e.g. combats seven signs of ageing etc,

The company in question actually invented the seven signs themselves, and then ensured that their products really did combat (not "cure" or "reduce", notice) them. The fact that smearing your face with plaster of paris could also be said to combat the signs escapes most buyers. It's horribly devious, but there is, unfortunately, no law against deviousness in advertising - only about intentionally misleading and inaccuracy. Covering up a wrinkle with goo is combatting the sign of aging, although it does bugger all about aging itself, but the advert is usually not going to be read like that.

It's the way of the law. I cannot say "(Insert any name you like) is a dishonest politician" unless I can prove it, but I can say "It is my opinion that (name) is a dishonest politician" because the fact of it being my opinion is true, regardless of whether the politician is dishonest or not. You'll find the same principle in operation if you ever have to perform searches before buying a house. Just about every answer will be prefaced by "To the best of my knowledge ...". It's all over the place.

Which is why I advised GA to very carefully examine what she has written, to ensure that she hasn't inadvertently included any implication she didn't intend.

Mike

[MKG]

Given allot of skin complaints are bacteria related, and allot of herbs ( including lavender) have an anticeptic quality, then if you make lavender soap, and it helps spots, and makes you smell like your Gran at Christmas, oh I don't know, these people are idiots, we are all idiots, EU rules on Agency staff, we opposed the rule, it got passed, who is the first country to put into law.... yes us, IDIOTS we are.

And here's a case in point, boboff. I googled lavender, and here's what the University of Maryland Medical Dept. had to say about it ...

Medicinal Uses and Indications:

A number of studies have reported that lavender essential oil may be beneficial in a variety of conditions, including insomnia, alopecia (hair loss), anxiety, stress, and postoperative pain. However, most of these studies have been small. Lavender is also being studied for antibacterial and antiviral properties. Lavender oil is often used in other forms of integrative medicine, such as massage, acupuncture, and chiropractic manipulation.

You said lavender has antiseptic properties. That's a definite statement but, according to a centre of research, it's merely being studied to discover whether it has or not.

See how easy it is to make an unsubstantiated claim? Generations of experience tell us you're probably right, but until it's established one way or the other, the TSA would probably be wagging their fingers at you.

Mike