"Will we ever learn"

[oldfella]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXu3w2Pq ... r_embedded

I make no comment.

PS, it is subtitled, into English.

[gdb]

As to the chemicals... I don't know enough about them to say.

But, from the point of view of taste alone, organic food tastes different.

And not just different. But better.

And I'd take a blindfold test of ANY fruit, veg, bread, wine or other food produce AND be able to tell the difference!!!

[MKG]

Sad film - in more ways than one. I couldn't agree more that our food should be produced under much more rigorous and healthy conditions. Unfortunately, "organic" doesn't (at this moment in time) equate with "rigorous" or "healthy". Look up the list of substances allowed in the production, preparation and preservation of "organic" food and you'll see what I mean. Better, undoubtedly, than it was, but we have a long way to go yet.

Producing films like this which are blatant heartstring pullers with very little real content in scientific terms doesn't help, I feel, especially as they tend to massively overstate the problem. We do not know if the world could feed its population using "organic" methods and, even if we did, we do not know if that population could then afford a reasonable diet.

What films like this tend to do is create an audience who will glady accept that wood ash is a "good" substance but never stoop so low as to use anything with the word phosphate in its description. Straightforward lack of education.

What we SHOULD be doing is getting people into our schools who will use real knowledge rather than emotional appeals to convince our children that some methods of food production are not good - but to do that, we need the real research rather than anecdotes. Otherwise we end up in silly season where people bury fish heads and aspirin three feet beneath their tomatoes and then claim it's good for the tomatoes and for the humans.

Mike

[oldjerry]

You're right of course,especially agree about the'organic' bit(but promise not to start my Soil Association rant again).

Thing is though,and this isn't some sort of inverted snobbery,most people's scientific knowledge is like mine,limited.As a result,we've taken on board loads of stuff,from people with hidden agendas,to the point where if anyone suggests a 'way forward' I usually mistrust them.It's like the winner of the Tour de France or the 100m sprint,you know they are taking something,it's just that no-one's found a way of detecting it yet.
You get to the stage where you can only justify your stance by the fact that 'it feels right',which is at least better than 'I make more cash that way',but nevertheless hardly rigorously scientific.
Maybe it's just me,but increasingly people are either cynical or gullible,there just seems to be no middle - ground.


...Picks up fishing rod,wanders off.....

[Green Aura]

I think you've both hit different nails on their respective heads.

For my part, the glaring bit missing from the film, apart from those stated above, is that no-one suggested growing their own.

I enjoyed the film but increasingly get irritated, these days, by the stuff they miss out. Everything seems to be aimed at the heartstrings.

But it might just be me - I still hanker for the days when the BBC reported news rather than invented it and I rather have the same feeling with documentaries that draw on emotion rather than an inquiring mind.

[oldfella]

I agree in part, with all the forgoing points of view, but as much as I distrust the so called experts in the field of Organic Farming, I have a far greater distrust of the likes of Monsanto, and the politicians, who are supposed to look after the interest of those who lack the knowledge.
Of course we can look at the programme and criticize the heart string pulling, however the reality is that few of us have the knowledge, or the education to validate to pro's and con's of the argument, so if it takes a few minor tugs at the heart-strings, to make people think, so be it, but it in no way invalidates the fact that YOUR children will be not be as healthy as our generation.
I personally am" News Geek" and if not reading this site, my only other interest is the news channels, from around the world, and the Natural History programmes, and it is my personal view is that in the pursuit of wealth, we are destroying the world we live in. Of course, if the wealth was for the benefit of mankind then we would only have ourselves to blame, but the vast majority of those who pay the price for some-ones else's wealth, have no say in the matter;
As an uneducated man I under'stand that my view of the world, differs greatly than some like Mike, so I admit that at times it takes a tug at the heart-strings, to make me delve deeper into the subject, and to date, no expert of either side has convinced me that what I see around me, is making this world a better place.

"Please prove me Wrong for the sake of my Grandchildren"

[MKG]

I don't think you're in any way wrong - I agree totally with your sentiments. It's simply that I'd prefer to see things like this tackled head on, using the truth as a weapon. Otherwise, I see it as a bit of a dirty game - rather like politics (What am I saying? It IS politics )

Mike

[grahamhobbs]

Not only has there been an increase in the chemicals in our foods but over the last 200 years a large increase in the amount of sugar and meat in most peoples diets together with a reduction in the amount of grains, vegetables and fermented foods. I would like to see proper independent appraisals of the effects these changes have had. Trouble is bad food and bad health is big business.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

No disagreements from me: I regard "organic" with a fair degree of suspicion these days.

To an extent the movement is a victim of its own success: as soon as it became clear that there was real money to be made the big boys moved in and immediately looked for ways to cut costs. Thus, they managed to stay within the letter of the laws rather than with their spirit.

There are a couple of organic farms near us growing soft fruit and market-garden veg and both look more bereft of wildlife and generally unhealthy than nearby conventional farms. That is ridiculous. And don't get me started on the quality of their soil after years of "organic" cultivation.

I see no reason why the world shouldn't be able to feed itself organically: most of it already does, though you could be forgiven for thinking the opposite when the agrochems trot out their scare stories about how we're all going to starve unless we grow GM pumpkins smothered with their new wonder spray Xykos 67.

Science, tradition & good horticulture can and should work together.

And for the sake of good order, the tomatoes I planted with aspirin are faring no better than their fellows, though I've not yet had ripe fruit to test.