which grazer would you go for?

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so here is the situation.. we have not long moved into our new house - it has a lovely big garden, and two fields.. 2 acres in total. its got huge potential.. and some decrepid but useful buildings.. including a piggery...

The house - is in need of lots of attention.. I home ed during the day, and have a part time job i do from home in the evenings/weekends.. OH has full time job. we cannot afford not to work!

So we will have to do something with these fields.. as soon as we stop fixig urgent house thigns.. intend to build a hen run, and we want to plant some fruit trees. and a hgue veggie patch. that still leaves lots of land. yes i realise its a good problem.

I want to be able to walk the land without being molested.. my parents have cows and sheep so i have some passing knowledge of those - not much.. and know i dont want to keep cows. sheep always seem intent on commiting suicide... fancy keeping alpacas but have no knowledge.. pigs seem obvious - but i have no knowledge.. and the set up is the traditional concrete sty thing...

eh... so what would you go for? given that we both are busy, although I am around during the day. ...any opinions? cant just ignore the fields... and would like something productive.. rather than just organic lawnmower..

[2steps]

I've wanted a goat since I was small so would properly chose thoose or pigs. I have seen day courses on keeping animals advertised so you maybe able to find something that in your area. My son would like a pony, wouldn't mind myself. I used to work in a stables and haven't been riding in to long

[Stonehead]

Pigs, sheep or goats. If sheep, one of the primitive breeds that moults and needs no shearing. But make sure they're also a breed that lambs easily - some have narrow pelvises and need a lot of attention and intervention.

If pigs, can you set up some sort of race or run so that you can keep your pigs in the pig sties at night and then let them out by day? A lot cheaper in the short term than providing them with more huts in the fields. (If you feed them in the pie sties of an evening, they'll quickly get the idea and come in for you.)

Also, go for some of the easier handling breeds, not least because it sounds like you have your hands full already. Tamworths in particular need a close eye kept on them and you have to repair fencing, huts etc a lot more than you do with Berkshires or Saddlebacks. (GOS fall somewhere between these.) Tamworths also need stronger fences and more strands of electric. They can also climb!! (Ever see an adult boar go up a gate?)

If you go for goats and are going to eat surplus kids, then make sure there's an abbatoir nearby that is licenced to slaughter them. Goats need very good fencing, but you may be able to use the pig sties as housing for them and then use a system of races/runs to let them into the fields.

Old-fashioned pig sties with sound concrete floors can be very useful, especially in very wet weather when the ground would be in danger of poaching. They don't have to be used for intensive rearing - you just have to consider ways of opening them up so that the livestock can go in and out with maximum convenience and security for both you and them.

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thanks for that.

the outbuildings.. henhouse, sheds,piggery are all packed close together and I doubt I could relocate even the wooden buildings because A they would fall apart and B we are inside Dartmoor NP and you have to get permission for such...etc etc. however with alot of thought.. i could prolly make runs from the housing in various directions. is there any reason why goats or sheep could not use a run that pigs have used etc?


are you suggesting keeping the pigs inside in the concrete bit during soggy weather ?

the goats and abbatoir - do the need a specific goat licence then?

many thanks for your advice

[Stonehead]

the outbuildings.. henhouse, sheds,piggery are all packed close together and I doubt I could relocate even the wooden buildings because A they would fall apart and B we are inside Dartmoor NP and you have to get permission for such...etc etc

I didn't mean relocate the buildings. I meant consider new ways of using them. The henhouse could be straightforward - just open the door and let them out each day to free range. However, you'll need to make sure areas like vegetable gardens are securely fenced.

however with alot of thought.. i could prolly make runs from the housing in various directions. is there any reason why goats or sheep could not use a run that pigs have used etc?

It's hard to describe without knowing your particular layout, but what I'd look at doing is building some sort of yard in front of the doors to the buildings. You'd be able to let the animals into the yard, back trailers in to load/unload, and possibly have handling facilities in the future (weighers, sheep-overs etc).

The yard would also open into a race or run that would lead out to your fields. The run might lead out alongisde the fields (so you'd need gates opening into the fields), between the fields (so gates either side) or directly to the fields, so a Y shape at the end with a gate that closes off one side or the other. You do need to keep in mind that you may want to get a tractor into the fields at some point and either build your runs accordingly or provide separate access (the better option).

I've set our layout up like this...



The pigs can be kept in the main field (off the diagram to the bottom of the image), in the winter pig field, in one of three pens (the maternity pen, the weaner pen or the boar pen, these extend to the left off the image) or in one of two pens in the byre.

By putting temporary gates or barriers where the red lines are, I can direct the pigs (or sheep fo that matter) where I want them.

When we brought 35 sheep on the other day, we opened the road gate at top left, put a spare gate across the opening to the 12ft track going to the right, and then walked the sheep up into the main field.

When we took a pair of sheep out a month back, we herded them down into the corner created by the maternity pen and the extension of the fence running down the side of the winter field, but put a temporarygate where the lowest red line is. We closed a gate behind the sheep, backed a van up to the red line and loaded the sheep.

I can look at a place, visualise the layout in my mind and then build it, but most people find it easier to plan it out, mark it on the ground with temporary markers, and then walk/drive through it a few times. Then sort out any problems and try again. My OH finds it amazing that what I've described does actually work when built - she'd prefer diagrams and plans.

One of the key things with our layout is the junction of the two 12ft tracks and the track to the road. It looks a bit odd as everything is staggered and off centre, but this is to enable tractors with machinery and my Land Rover with trailer to get around the corners. A nice, squared junction would be an absolute nightmare to get around!

are you suggesting keeping the pigs inside in the concrete bit during soggy weather ?

Overwintering pigs inside can be a good idea, particularly if your ground is prone to poaching and there's nowhere dry for them to stand. If you have a lot of land, you can manage their winter grazing so poaching is minimised. If not, you have to come up with other solutions, such as keeping them inside in the worst weather (but you will have to muck them out).

I'm gradually putting concrete pads down in our pens and the winter field. These go around the troughs, feeding areas and gateways as these are the areas that get churned to bog. In the absence of concrete pads, I use a lot of straw but this can be a pain to dig in come summer.

I can also bring sick pigs or in-pig sows into the two byres. I also use byre from time to time to finish fattening weaners - usually when I need to control their feeding because they're either eating too much food (pushing others out of the way) or not getting enough (because they're the runt). An advantage to keeping them inside for short spells is that you also get dunged straw for your vegetable beds.

the goats and abbatoir - do the need a specific goat licence then?

Abbatoirs need specific permits for each type of animal they slaughter. I use Scotch Premier in Inverurie as they're licenced for pigs and cattle, but have to go to Elgin to get sheep slaughtered as the abbatoir there is licenced for sheep and cattle.

Abbatoirs also need specific licences for deer, goats, wild boar, etc.

It can get very complicated!

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It's hard to describe without knowing your particular layout, but what I'd look at doing is building some sort of yard in front of the doors to the buildings. You'd be able to let the animals into the yard, back trailers in to load/unload, and possibly have handling facilities in the future (weighers, sheep-overs etc).

maybe I shall do a diagram - but now that you have said that - it occurs that it would lend itself to a courtyard arrangement, the buildings face each other with a drainage ditch in the middle. The thing is to think about it and come up with a workable plan before i go and build a fence in the wrong place.

Overwintering pigs inside can be a good idea, particularly if your ground is prone to poaching and there's nowhere dry for them to stand. If you have a lot of land, you can manage their winter grazing so poaching is minimised. If not, you have to come up with other solutions, such as keeping them inside in the worst weather (but you will have to muck them out).

ok thats good to know.

Abbatoirs need specific permits for each type of animal they slaughter.

ah I did not know that - I cannot imagine it will be a problem - being so many farming communities in this area.. but good point. I will need to think of all these things before I jump in.

do you recommend a good pig book for absolute beginners? and a really friendly easy going not biting sort of breed (thats also good eating...), and is gettng a couple of weeners and fattening them up for slaughter a good place to start?

I think we might well start with sheep as i do have a passing knowledge.. have helped with lambing in the past, and it wont take alot to get our fences up to standard, and they should keep the fields in resonable nick whilst we research other things.. after that the pigs and the goats....


thanks agian for your advice.

[Stonehead]

do you recommend a good pig book for absolute beginners?

Carol Harris's A Guide to Traditional Pig Keeping. It's up to date, covers everything and is easy to get to grips with. It's the one-stop shop of pig books for smallholders!

Andy Case's Starting with Pigs: A Beginners Guide isn't bad, but you'll soon need a more encompassing book.

Katie Thear has a few books, not specifically on pigs, that may be helpful - The Complete Book of Raising Livestock and Poultry is one of the better ones. Someone recommended Starting with Goats to me, but as I didn't go for goats I never bought the book.

And a really friendly easy going not biting sort of breed (thats also good eating...), and is gettng a couple of weeners and fattening them up for slaughter a good place to start?

Buy a couple of rare breed weaners from a reasonably local breeder. You'll help keep the breeder and the breed going, make a local contact and possible a future source of advice. Make sure they know you're buying them to eat, not breed as this helps in selecting which pigs to buy/sell.

As for breeds, IMO the best pork is from Berkshires and Middle Whites, but you'll find that pork from rare breeds that are properly fed and housed is always much better than the stuff you'll get from supermarkets and most butchers.

Both Berkshires and Middle Whites are relatively quiet and easily handled breeds. They're also more compact than most of the other breeds and mature earlier (so can be killed sooner).

Middle Whites have much less of a tendency to root around because of their short snouts. However, some people think they're ugly - myself included!!

Others to consider would be Saddlebacks (easy going, good pork and grazers, but they can get quite large), Oxford Sandy and Blacks (good pork and less inclined to run to fat, easily handled and IMO a very pretty pig) and the British Lop (easily handled but again can get big).

I'm not a fan of Gloucestershire Old Spots (having kept them) as I've found them temperamental and flighty, but you can use them for pork and bacon and they taste good. Tamworths can be a handful, but are real characters and make great bacon.

For myself, I'd go for Berkshires first (and I have them), then Oxford Sandy and Blacks (but can be hard to source), then Saddlebacks (I've had them), then Middle Whites, and then Tamworths (which I have).

I think we might well start with sheep as i do have a passing knowledge.. have helped with lambing in the past, and it wont take alot to get our fences up to standard, and they should keep the fields in resonable nick whilst we research other things.. after that the pigs and the goats....

Always a good idea to start with what you know and build from there. But a couple of weaners over the summer, killed in October (to avoid the Christmas rush at the butcher) and then eaten over winter/spring would be a good way to start. You avoid the worst weather, get an idea of how your land works, and have lovely hot roasts in the coldest months.

thanks agian for your advice.

No problem - the invoice is in the mail!

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thanks agian for your advice.

No problem - the invoice is in the mail!

dang - and there was me thinking what a nice man he was too.....

seriously, thanks for all your help - it all seems clearer to me and the thought of that pork is making me hungry....