A little upset and wondering if I've done the right thing

[Masco&Bongo]

So there you go, thats how I feel about it, but as I say I will be making it very clear on the invitation that its a just for adults wedding so there is no need for any misunderstandings. I am also going to ring the friend who have children before we send out the invites to fully explain the situation to them in a friendly way.

I think this would be the way to go....

If you don't want children there, make it clear, then there are no misunderstandings... this is probably where Mrs F's friend fell down in that respect

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Bit of thread drift (though, Mrs F, I can understand your being hurt, so treat it just like any other job), but it occurs to me that the only weddings I've been to that have actively sought to exclude children have been in the UK. Everywhere else I've had the pleasure of attending nuptuals the event has been very much a family affair.

The reason usually given is that "adults will only be properly able to enjoy themselves without children" which I confess I find a slightly disturbing sentiment. Is it because people can only achieve pleasure while being smashed out of their minds and therefore incapable of supervising children? I suppose I could understand children being excused the service itself (youngsters being easily board and not understanding the need for a bit of quite) but keeping them away from the party itself?

I've declined two invites in recent years because they did not include children. I don't feel bad about that.

[citizentwiglet]

Helsbells, the wording you intend to put on your invitation is perfect, IMO. However, don't be upset if some friends with children decline the invitation - it may not be feasible for them to arrange childminding etc (as is the case with us); but I'm sure you wouldn't be upset anyhow, I'm sure you'd understand. I totally understand why people wish to have no children at weddings, but we have had to turn invitations down purely because we have had nobody to leave Ellis with overnight (they haven't been local weddings, which would have been easier as it wouldn't have involved an overnight stay).

MrsF - your friend made the fatal error of not making it clear on the invitation - of course 'The Olivers' include Sophie, IMO! If she was not invited, then the invitation at the very least should have been clearly addressed to you and James by name. And then to admit that this was due to COST was very daft indeed! I mean, you might have that as your reason, but you wouldn't SAY it, would you?!

You could call her bluff and say 'Well, I'll pay for Sophie's meal instead of buying you a wedding gift'..would that be naughty?!

I must say though, I'd be saying No. If Sophie can't come, then none of you will. I would have thought differently had it been clearer from the outset that the invitation was for adults only - you would then have been forewarned. But to have you 'on a promise' and then seemingly change the rules isn't fair, IMO.

[hamster]

I've noticed the same thing, Jon, and I think there's a bit of a vicious cycle going on. Because in France, Italy, Portugal etc (generalising massively here!!) children are expected to attend these events, they tend to be expected/taught to behave, eat the same food etc and not cause too much of a fuss; but since in the UK a lot of people don't, by and large, expect their children to be able to sit through a church service without needing 400 story books and a heap of toy cars to keep them entertained, then many children don't behave themselves and can't sit still for that long. (Not saying any of people on here's children would be badly behaved, it's just a general observation.) I've been to church services where there have been children running up and down the aisles, picking flowers out of the flower arrangements, shouting during the prayers/readings etc and generally causing mayhem while the parents don't do anything about it and if it was my wedding and I was really nervous and it was a really meaningful occasion I think I'd find that really distracting and upsetting. So while I think it's quite sad that, culturally, we aren't very good at intergenerational social occasions and events, and it must be very galling for parents of well-behaved children, I can fully understand why people would say no children at their wedding. (Helsbells, it sounds like you're doing it very tactfully.)

MrsF, I can understand you being upset. Like you, I would assume that an invitation to 'the Olivers' would include the whole family unless stated otherwise and think your friend was rather careless, but it would be a real shame to fall out over it. If it was just that she was worried you wouldn't be able to focus on taking photos if Soph was there, then she might be happy if you explain that James will look after her, but if it is a general 'no children' rule it would probably be v hard for her to make an exception for you guys and although it must be tough, in your position I would respect what she wants and go by yourself if you can't get a babysitter.

[mrsflibble]

Right, I actually rang my friend last night, missed her and she rang me back. after much nattering and admission of errors, James and Soph are invited to the wedding, but the reception sit-down meal is a no-no for them (I have to be there to take pictures of the speeches and such). James is actually rather pleased with this. he hates what he refers to as "poncey" food and will be quit happy taking soph to the local pub for a pub meal, or to a dreaded burger bar somewhere. she'll probably enjoy this just as much too. they are then expected back for the evening party I think (M's not clear on that so I'll be emailing her again today hahaha!). M is looking forward to seing soph and has said the vicar is happy for a little room off the main body of the church to be used for noisy children; soph wont be the only one there and she's not the only one not going to the reception sit down meal.

phew, problems sorted, friendship not ruined and at the end of the day I still get paid hahahahaha!!!

btw; the wedding gift I have planned costs half of what the meal at the reception place costs. I still have to order it though. As I don't need any extra equipment, M's deposit for the day of work is going on her wedding gift; is that naughty?!

Thomzo, my mates rates are the same as what I offer to other people, but she will get a couple of free 6x4 prints, a wider choice of albums (which she'll still have to pay for) and a voucher for a photo of their first child whenever that may arrive

This is the third wedding I'll have done, I have a fourth booked for next may (I think it's next may; Tea: I'm doing Em's when is it?!!! never mind I'll ask Em lol!) I actually am not that keen on photographing weddings, there's not reall enough room for creativity... BUT it's "bread and butter" money (actually this one is "laptop" money) and I know I can do a good job. So far I've done my aunt's marriage at my family's traditional registry office; I was the first of 5 generations not to get married there. I did my mum-in-law's wedding to my step-dad-in-law(phew that's hard to work out!), my friend Kate's to her ex-wife Kez. I'm also booked for Kate's wedding to her new partner Jamie (Kez and Kate broke up, Kate discovered how fun willies can be ). Now all the problems have been sorted I'm feeling one heck of a lot better about doing M's.

[mrsflibble]

UPFATE she's changed her mind again. James and soph are invited to the evening party at 7pm so M can keep costs down, and soph can still enjoy dancing and eating hog-roast and staying up and not have to sit through all the sermons etc in the church service. I get to put my camera down at about 9 so I'll also have a couple of hours to be myself too. PHEWPHEWPHEW!!!

[citizentwiglet]

Wonderful....I'm delighted that this all turned out OK.

[Russian Doll]

lol yes the renewal is next may and i know my son couldnt sit still for my than three mins and thats with handcuffs

[Ratty]

Yay! All sorted! And pennies to come too

And I fully agree about the "trend" for child-less weddings tending to be a UK thing. We could learn a lot about family life from our European counterparts IMHO.

[mrsflibble]

lol yes the renewal is next may and i know my son couldnt sit still for my than three mins and thats with handcuffs

you're having one too?! I was talking about Em W and Rich's wedding lol!!!

[Helsbells]

Hi Mrs Fibble,
So glad you got it all sorted.
I have found this thread so interesting, and it has made me feel rather guilty, but I still feel the same about children at the wedding.
I dont hate children or anything (I am a teacher after all) and I have to say, in my family there are no children, literally, and none of my really close friends have children either, and I think I would think differantly if they did.

[shell]

glad its sorted and it is good to hear different views,one of my older my daughters is making plans for her wedding at present,and this will be an issue as there are so many kids in our family and also freinds kids it will bring the cost up so much that she may have to postpone till they can afford to accomodate all,the other option is to marry abroad and this is seriously considered,as then no-one will be offended,well possibly

[contadina]

There really is no need to feel bad about your decision Hellbells. It's exactly that and you are quite entitled to enjoy your day the way you see fit and not feel you have to include everyone just to keep others happy. Should anyone take offense - that's their lookout.

My case was the exact opposite of yours: if we'd invited children, they would have outnumbered adults by 3:1 (as 80 adults attended you get an idea of the number of children involved) . Unlike much of southern Europe, British kids on mass generally get too excitable and tend to get cranky if kept up late. For us, I know this was the right decision, and thankfully, it was respected and appreciated by all invited guests. We didn't have one parent decline and as the invites went out several months before the event, they had ample time to find babysitters for the weekend.

Picking up on what hamster said about the differences in the behaviour of British and Mediterranean children, several times in restaurants now we've observed British children behaving really badly (running around screaming, refusing to eat and even throwing their food on the floor) whilst all the Italian children sit and enjoy their meals with their families. Whether this cultural difference is down to the fact the extended family is still prevalent in much of Europe or whether it is more normal to sit down and eat with the whole family or whether the children get a good siesta each day; I don't know.

[citizentwiglet]

Most of my family and close friends have children too...we've decided that we're just going to have a late afternoon registry office wedding followed by a party....with no sit-down reception. We're on a really tight budget anyway, and everyone I know who's got married seems to have stressed more about the reception that anything else - who won't want to sit with who, who won't eat X or Y and wants Z instead, whether the littlies will sit still or will try to pull off the tablecloths....so for our own sanity more than anything else we've decided to forego the traditional sit-down dinner part! That way we save money, the littlies won't get bored and restless, Old Auntie Flo can avoid Auntie Doris and we can all just chill out and relax a bit.

Helsbells, don't feel guilty - it's your day, and you plan it how you want it. I must admit, we went to a wedding last month and Ellis was an absolute terror - he's just gone 2, so doesn't understand the concept of sitting still and listening quietly. Oh no, places have echoes (so must be shouted in!), long corridors that must be explored and all sorts of interesting nooks and crannies for crawling into. I missed the ceremony because I took him outside rather than have him disrupt the proceedings (he tried to crawl under the bride's dress at one point...); I was rather mortified, but do understand that he is too young to know better, really. They didn't have a formal reception, and after the ceremony Ellis was as good as gold - had a great time dancing around and squashing sausage rolls into my lap....so I can completely understand the principal of having no kids - I'd just be rather hypocritical as we'd have two of our own!

[MrsD'ville mkII]

Really pleased it's sorted Mrs F - must have been a nervey phone call!

Not having much experience of non-UK children I didn't realise our were so much worse, but I don't find it hard to believe, sadly. I have a friend who often says 'you are good' because we eat supper with the children - why is this 'good'? She makes it sound like some form of extreme self-sacrifice. I would fully expect my six year old to sit through a meal and be well-behaved, but then I would also expect her to take part in the conversation, not be sidelined as 'a child' who would then get bored and so start to be awkward. Children must be allowed to be children, but for their own sake they should learn how to behave in more of an mixed situation when tearing around getting over-excited isn't necessarily appropriate. I'm talking here about children old enough to understand the concept - P was fine with this sort of thing from about age 4 as it's what she's always known at every supper time since she could sit up!

Anyway, glad you're sorted Mrs F.