who believes in god (these days)

[Fifer182]

I am what I am and people are what they are. I fully appreciate anyone who follows a certain path/religion as long as they find comfort and practice what they preach.. each to their own.
It is my belief that though there are many, many religions & beliefs which appear to be different.. they are very largely similar.. they all appear to be based upon the human condition hence the humanisations of deity, god, spirits, Gaia and such. We personify that which we cannot understand..
I myself, am rather an earth based believer, following the cycles of the world in which I live, beleiving in energies rather than a specific higher being. To me, we are all one and the same, it's all down to interpretation..

[rockchick]

I realise my previous past was a bit negative and I know lots of religious people wander how there is any meaning to my life without religion and wanted to try to explain. Others are making similar statements which gives me great encouragement. The closest thing I have found to explain how I understand my life, and its really not religious or spiritual, is James Lovelocks 'Gaia Theory'. I do not interpret it as a belief or spiritual message but purely as an understanding that humans are just one of many elements on the planet who interact. Its basically the science of cause and effect on a large scale. For me, 'Gaia' is the most amazing thing to be part of and as humans we have the power to make informed decisions and have the ability to consider the consequences of our actions. My aim is to make my impact as positive as possible and I am happy to dedicate my life to learning about the world I live in, in order to do that.

[cruixman]

my god. when i posted this to start of with. i thought hardly anyone would get involved. as alot of people like to keep these views to themselves. ive read all the stuff posted here. and i now realise just how intelligent the people are that join in here. and also how limited my own experience is. thanks to everyone......jim

[Jimmy]

I am always bemused by people who pose the question as to whether God exists. If you use the web as much as I use it you would see that a lot of this kind of talk is going on. For example, Facebook has "accounts" seemingly set up to pose the same question. On this forum the question is "who believes in God (these days)" and I would ask a simple question...if one believes that God does not exist (which is what the question is really implying) then why is that person/people talking about the subject. Surely one would go about their business giving no regard to God. For me, the fact that one is asking the question ( and sometimes putting a lot of their time in the effort of trying to prove that God does not exist) means that they are searching for God. I would suggest that if the question is genuine, then perhaps the place to start is with oneself. What I mean is this, do you really want to know if God exists or are you looking for just another place to put blame for all the things that have gone wrong, or are you trying to discover whether your existence on this planet means anything more than your lifespan? let's assume that the person asking the question is a non-believer. Why, non-believer, are you asking us who "believes in God." If I say that I believe in God, then what? What is it that you want to discuss about this issue? I believe in God. I have no shame in saying it. I go to church, of my own choice. I don't go round confronting non-believers, they are the ones, every time, who do the confronting. I believe in God because I have a relationship with him which is conducted through certain behaviours and thoughts. For one, I read about God in the bible and other literature. I also communicate by praying to and thinking about God. I have relationships with other believers. Also though, I have relationships with many non-believers. I would love to live in a world where everyone believed, but that's not going to happen. When a friend asks me about my faith, I simply tell them. But ultimately it is a choice whether one believes in God, and I choose God.

Is this the kind of response you were hoping to find?

[Rosendula]

Hi Jimmy,

.... On this forum the question is "who believes in God (these days)" and I would ask a simple question...if one believes that God does not exist (which is what the question is really implying) then why is that person/people talking about the subject. Surely one would go about their business giving no regard to God. For me, the fact that one is asking the question ( and sometimes putting a lot of their time in the effort of trying to prove that God does not exist) means that they are searching for God.

I don't believe in any of the Gods, but I do participate in the discussions. I never try to persuade anyone else that their Gods don't exist for I believe it is down to the individual to work out what they truly believe in their hearts and mind.

People who do believe in Gods do not have any problem in avoiding those of us who don't. It's not so easy the other way around. Those of us who do not believe in Gods are constantly bombarded with people trying to force us to believe - knocking on our doors, posting leaflets to us, going into schools, setting up stalls in market places/fair grounds/on the street and shouting it at us while we are trying to get about our business peacefully. I would like to ask you, how many atheists have knocked on your door to discuss these matters? How many went into your school or go into your children's school (if you have any)? How many atheists have stood in the various places mentioned above, shouting about there not being any Gods?

I would quite happily go about my business giving no regard to the Christian God, or any other God, if I could, but it constantly shoved in my face by TV 'personalities', politicians, and other people, many of whom want to use their God as an excuse to control or harm people. Please do not be offended by this, I am not suggesting that all believers are sadistic control-freaks, but some are, and those people run the most powerful countries in the world. I find that very, very scary.

[Graye]

I think I'm with Rosendula here.

It seems to me that, on the whole, the Christian believers seem very much more defensive of their position. I don't think that the reason that someone is asking who is a believer suggests that they are in fact searching for a god themselves. Out of sheer interest people would want to know and discuss the point. If you like going to church and it works for you then I see that as entirely your business. It doesn't interest me and I'm not open to persuasion, in the same way that believers would not be if I tried a bit of preaching against their beliefs. I fully respect their position and expect them to extend the same courtesy to me. People who do not believe are almost certainly not looking to be converted - they are NOT blank canvases waiting for a picture to be drawn, they have thought this out for themselves and reached their own conclusions.

I have a lovely friend who is a devoted born again Christian. In discussions completely unrelated to her beliefs she will often begin her sentences with "... as a Christian, I think...". I often have to say to her "Pam, what I think you mean is 'as a human being' ". She has to agree and admits that she can tend to try to shove her beliefs down people's throats because she believes she has such an important message to deliver. We're still great friends though...

[MikeM]

if one believes that God does not exist (which is what the question is really implying) then why is that person/people talking about the subject. Surely one would go about their business giving no regard to God. For me, the fact that one is asking the question ( and sometimes putting a lot of their time in the effort of trying to prove that God does not exist) means that they are searching for God.

no it doesn't.

[oldfella]

Well put Rosendulla,

[Decentralist]

I tend to be a panthiest/taoist but use paganism/nature worship to better be able to grasp the vastness of some of the concepts with my limited human faculties. Sometimes I like to believe in that these deities are more than just symbols though and I certainly believe in reincarnation/Summerlands.

I'm against organised religion in the sense of large, hierarchical organisations(I'm against most such organisations.) but I do agree with Durkheim about the need for the sacred in the lives of most individuals and in society, although this doesn't exactly necessitate gods, and I certainly believe a healthy society will tend to have a certain spirituality and tradition in its social bonds. That is perhaps though more a quest for community, rootedness and identity in a world which is both increasingly individualistic and yet(or likely because of this) in many ways oppressive.

[Clara]

I've so far stayed out of this because I don't wish to cause offence. I am what Douglas Adams would have a called a radical atheist (a term he coined lest anyone should actually think there was an agnostic bone in his body). That doesn't mean that I don't live my life without reverence or narrative, e.g i feel deeply connected to the land and the moon, but weave my webs and create my stories without deferring to something "other".

Believe what you like but there were a couple of points raised that I'd like to address: firstly the point that anyone professing not to believe in god but getting involved in conversations regarding her ( ) existence is actually an admission of searching agnosticism. It's not. One can be interested in belief from a purely psychological/sociological/anthropological standpoint. Moreover these days it is more important for atheists to get involved in the debate because of the growing political influence of faith. When the leader of the free world tells us that god told him to invade iraq and the potential vp actually believes in the biblical version of creation (and BECAUSE of this stands a better chance of being elected) over evolution, then its time for us to get involved. Time was we could just close the door on manic believers, these days they are running the show (lest we forget Tony B just converted to Catholocism).

Secondly the proposition that faith permeates all works of life and levels of society.　Ｔｈａｔｓ　ｔｒｕｅ　ｔｏ　ａｎ　ｅｘｔｅｎｔ　（ｓｏｒｒｙ　ｂｏｕｔ　ｔｈｅ　ｆｏｎｔ　ｔｈｉｎｇ，　ｋｅｅｐｓ　ｈａｐｐｅｎｉｎｇ　Ｉ　ｇｕｅｓｓ　Ｉ’ｖｅ　ｈｉｔ　ａ　ｍｙｓｔｅｒｙ　ｂｕｔｔｏｎ　－　ｐｒｉｚｅｓ　ｆｏｒ　ａｎｙｏｎｅ　ｗｈｏ　ｃａｎ　ｓｕｇｇｅｓｔ　ｗｈａｔ！），　ｈｏｗｅｖｅｒ　ｉｔ　ｉｓ　ａｌｓｏ　ｔｒｕｅ　ｔｈａｔ　ｔｈｅ　ｍｏｒｅ　ｈｉｇｈｌｙ　ｅｄｕｃａｔｅｄ　ｙｏｕ　ａｒｅ　ｔｈｅ　ｌｅｓｓ　ｌｉｋｅｌｙ　ｙｏｕ　ａｒｅ　ｔｏ　ｂｅ　ａ　ｂｅｌｉｅｖｅｒ．　Ｉ　ｋｎｏｗ　ｔｈａｔ　ｗｉｌｌ　ｒｅｓｕｌｔ　ｉｎ　ｐｅｏｐｌｅ　ｌｉｓｔｉｎｇ　ｓｅｖｅｒａｌ　ｂｒａｉｎｉａｃ　ｃｈｒｉｓｔｉａｎｓ，　ｂｕｔ　ｉ’ｍ　ｔａｌｋｉｎｇ　ａｂｏｕｔ　ｓｏｃｉｅｔｙ　ａｓ　ａ　ｗｈｏｌｅ　－　ａｎｄ　ｄｏｎ’ｔ　ｅｖｅｎ　ｇｏ　ｔｈｅｒｅ　ｗｉｔｈ　Ｅｉｎｓｔｅｉｎ，　ｉｔ’ｓ　ｂｕｎｋ．

[cruixman]

well said rosendula...jimmy sounds exactly like the type of people you describe. he probably chaps on doors. or post meaningless letters thru doors of non-believers. or worse standing on street corners
making utter fools of themselves. trying to persuade the public. that they and there children will burn in hell. for what? for not believing in a god. that they believe in. what kind of god would condem innocent men women and children. to burn eternally in the flames of hell. for not worshipping them! il tell you what kind of god. a evil god. the same kind of god. that america and the uk. are quite willing to kill innocent people in faraway coutries for. on a daily basis. and to say that you speak to god. or communicate. with a made up super being. is a nonsense. we create our own future. that is why the christian church. or any other religions are gradually being put where they belong. IN THE PAST. as a people we are growing up. we no longer need a god. to make our crops grow. we the human race do that for ourselves. so thankyou. but to a god. well from me that would be a definate....NO

[Green Aura]

Thanks Clara

I made similar points earlier. I'd forgotten about the radical atheist thing. Me to a tee.

[Jimmy]

cruixman

1) I have never knocked on anyones door or posted anything to do with religion.
2) I have never stood on a street corner other than to wait for a bus or be collected.
3) I have never warned anyone about any person burning in hell, for doing or not doing anything.
4) I have never supported the UK or the US in the "war" on Iraq.
5) I do communicate to God, I don't feel the need to apologise to you for that.
6) The human race is evolving, one way or another, but that doesn't mean that "as a people we are growing up." You are attacking something you don't believe in. If you don't believe in God why are you attacking God? Surely God does not exist in your opinion.
7) You don't need God you say. Who are you trying to convince? I never tried to tell you to believe, you asked the question, but all you really wanted was an opportunity to attack someone or something.
8) As an experienced gardener, I don't have the arrogance to suggest that I "make" anything grow. I am at the mercy of the weather and other conditions way beyond my (or your) control.

I have never had the arrogance to suggest that little old me can create the future. There are billions of people in this world, and you Cruixman are just one of them. I am not going to cower from you. Your original question was not a sincere request for a debate, but a temptation to attack something that perhaps you can't or won't consider possible, that there may be a God. Either way, I pity you because of your hateful attitude. I never attacked you, I just gave an opinion. I wish you peace and success in your future. I am not interested in an argument, but if you want to discuss this any further I am happy to ablige.

[Green Aura]

I pity you because of your hateful attitude. I never attacked you, I just gave an opinion

Hmmm!!!!

[cruixman]

thanks for your reply jimmy.

when i origionally posted the question. (who believes in god these days) it was not a veiled attack, on those of us that do. and contrary to your belief. we are not all secret christians. i myself are very open minded. as to where us humans came from. and from here it looks like we evolved. on this earth.
the dinosaurs have no place in your bible. WHY. did these creatures not exist. or did noar not allow them onto the ark? and as for having no control in your garden. well most of us do. via greenhouses pset control nets etc. we control our own world jimmy. by that i dont mean. you or i. i mean the human race. why do you think most churches. are half deserted? could it be because people in a free land. have learned more about. the world that we live in. and have left the church.(that never seems able to move on) well in the past. isnt it strange why the world religions are best suited. to third world countries. is this because these people still have a desperate struggle for life. and the thought of a god that helps. is much more appealing than a nothing. man created god......