How can I bulk up the grapes?

[rullfarm]

Hi there. A friend has just given us 3lbs of black grapes from his garden and I have beaten them to a pulp with a potato masher and have put them into a fermentation bucket - there's a bit of activity already as I've leftthem near the Rayburn. However, there will be very little juice from this small quantity and I don't want to go through months of waiting for just two bottles. Can I bulk out the grapes with anything else? Can I even buy commercial grape juice from the supermarket to top up a demi-john? Also, I'm using the recipe from this site which looks ridiculously easy but mentions having 10lbs of grapes. If I use other fruit/juice, would I keep the sugar amount the same (2lbs)?

Thanks - off to work now to earn money (rats!)

Sally

[Green Aura]

I'll leave proper answers to MKG, but my immediate thought is that 3lb should make a gallon of wine - have you added any water? You need to make it up to the gallon with water, then top it up again when you rack it.

However, if you do need to add something - raisins or sultanas would be a good option and I'm guessing better than grape juice as they'll not have all the preservatives.

[MKG]

Hmmm - bad news, I'm afraid. Average amounts for commercial-quality wine work out at 16 lbs per gallon for red and 20 lbs per gallon for white - grape juice is fermented as is with no dilution. And that, of course, is using grapes grown in a Mediterranean-like climate - it's sunlight hours which increase the sugar yield in grapes. Although you don't say, I assume that you're in the UK? If so, you may get away with home-grown grapes if you live in the south, but you'd probably need even more than the average.

So, it's not going to be worth your while attempting to make wine solely from your grapes. However, they will make a startlingly good addition to any other wine you make. Just choose any recipe you fancy and add the grapes along with the other bulk ingredients. Just bear in mind that they'll contain between 10% (if grown in the UK) and 20% by weight of sugar, so adjust the recipe's sugar additions accordingly. You won't need any yeast nutrient, either. If your recipe calls for a half-pound of raisins, sultanas or a half-pint of red grape concentrate, simply substitute your grapes.

You could make up the shortage with supermarket grape juice, but I wouldn't - there's a reason those grapes were turned into juice rather than wine, and that is that they make exceptionally disappointing wine (although, once again, make a worthwhile addition to other recipes).

Mike

[grahamhobbs]

Is it a good idea to ferment beside the rayburn? Grapes are not usually fermented (in France) with heat, if anything the reverse.

[rullfarm]

Thank you for your ideas and advice. I'm not sure about the Rayburn thing. I've only done that because when I've made wine from kits they say to have a temperature as near to 20 as poss but no lower. Our house is not centrally heated and this time of year near the Rayburn is the only place that is that temperature all day long. It would be no problem to put the bucket elsewhere as one thing we are not short of is space!

I had already added some raisins to the wine - just a few that I had left over from the Beano Vino i made a few weeks back (runner bean wine - I'll let you know in a few months when we drink it but at the moment all signs are good). I also made a visit to our local home brew shop in Honiton and the nice man in there sold me some proper red wine grape juice concentrate to bulk up my grapes. He says I'll have to add more yeast when I put it in the demijohn. he also said I should add a Campden Tablet to the grape juice before I put it in the demijohn. This is where I get confused. I thought the CT would stop fermentation. Can I add a CT to the squeezed grape juice, put it in a demijohn, top it up and then add yeast?

Cheers

Sally

[MKG]

Thank you for your ideas and advice. I'm not sure about the Rayburn thing. I've only done that because when I've made wine from kits they say to have a temperature as near to 20 as poss but no lower. Our house is not centrally heated and this time of year near the Rayburn is the only place that is that temperature all day long. It would be no problem to put the bucket elsewhere as one thing we are not short of is space!

I had already added some raisins to the wine - just a few that I had left over from the Beano Vino i made a few weeks back (runner bean wine - I'll let you know in a few months when we drink it but at the moment all signs are good). I also made a visit to our local home brew shop in Honiton and the nice man in there sold me some proper red wine grape juice concentrate to bulk up my grapes. He says I'll have to add more yeast when I put it in the demijohn. he also said I should add a Campden Tablet to the grape juice before I put it in the demijohn. This is where I get confused. I thought the CT would stop fermentation. Can I add a CT to the squeezed grape juice, put it in a demijohn, top it up and then add yeast?

Cheers

Sally

Now we know about your heating conditions, next to the Rayburn sounds ideal. If you already have yeast in with the grapes, you certainly WON'T need to add any more. I haven't the foggiest how he came up with that one. On the other hand, if you haven't put any in, then make up your juice/concentrate mixture, stick it in the demijohn and then add yeast. Don't forget to leave a bit of a gap at the top of the demijohn - there may be a lot of foaming later - and top up with water when the foaming has died down. The reason for the Campden tablet is also a mystery - the concentrate must be sterile to begin with, so the tablet will do nothing except slow down the fermentation. Forget the tablet.

Mike

Mike

[rullfarm]

Thanks Mike - that makes a lot of sense.

I'm going to bottle the runner bean wine this afternoon so I can have a cheeky swig to see if it is drinkable or drain cleaner!

Cheers

Sally

[patR]

Over here (Portugal) wine making is so simple and natural its wonderful... no yeasts, no sugar, no racking... nothing...
we pick our grapes, put them through a hand operated crusher, the whole lot goes into the vat, stalks, skins ect... its given a good stir, then covered with a old rug... (lets it breath but keeps out bugs and dust) then every day morning and night we stir and poke it about with a garden rake...
After the fifth day, we decant it into the barrels, and thats it.... we leave the top open a little loosly for a few weeks until it stops fermenting, then screw it down tight till about mid april....
It MUST be kept cool during the whole process...
completely natural.... red wine, wonderful stuff... as taught to us by our elderly neighbours and just how the whole village make wine...

[rullfarm]

Sounds blooming marvellous Pat. I can feel the sunshine :-) I must start to trust the 'old ways' and let nature take its course - slowly. It's not as though I don't have enough quick kit wine on the go! I'm also wondering about making apple wine as we have loads of cookers and eaters. Anyone have any experience of this?
Cheers
Sally