my first wine is behaving strangely

[fenris]

hello,

i've had some wine on the go since about may, won't clear and still bubbling away in the airlock. it cleared quite a lot originally after about a month in a demijohn so i racked it into a second demijohn, thinking that's what you're meant to do, and i put a bit of pineapple juice in to top it up... since then it's been cloudy and a lot more airlock activity. fair enough i thought, the sugar in the juice must have done something, but i would have thought it would have stopped by now! there isnt much gas released now but i still see the odd bubble go through the airlock.

i havent a clue about this wine business so i would appreciate any suggestions on what's going on with my wine, is it ruined or just cantankerous?

[Green Aura]

I've never heard of putting juice in to top up your wine, we usually use water. It would certainly start it fermenting again, but that doesn't explain why it's not clearing. I can't see why it would be ruined though - you can stop fermentation if you want (I think with Campden tablets ) and something like bentonite clay will help it clear.

I've never made wine from pineapple but I do know it's got some enzyme in it that stops jelly setting so I don't know if it's a similar sort of problem?

I'm sure others with more knowledge will be along soon.

[MKG]

One of the awful temptations when a wine has just about finished is to rack and then top up with some form of sugar solution to try and force a little more alcohol into the wine. It sometimes works. Sometimes, though, all that happens is a tiny fermentation which goes on for months - a bit like what you're describing. So, racking was the right thing to do, but adding that pineapple juice was the wrong thing.

First of all, the fermentation has to be stopped. You can do that by adding a crushed Campden tablet (to stun the remaining yeast) and a level teaspoon of potassium sorbate (to stop any further yeast reproduction). A couple of days later, you'll have stopped it dead. If you don't like chemicals, than you need to chill (NOT freeze) the wine until the yeast drops to the bottom of the demijohn and then very carefully rack again (this time topping up with water). Failing both of those things, the only alternative is to put the wine away as is for a year or so in a cool place, checking that the airlock never dries out.

Now, that haze. It may be that when you have completely stopped the fermentation it will drop out naturally. If not, then you need to know what's causing it. Most "suspension" hazes can be cured with Bentonite as GA suggests. There are other finings available, but as you don't mention what the main ingredient of your wine is, it's hard to point you in the right direction - but Bentonite usually does the trick. That is, as long as it isn't a pectin haze. Any pectin certainly didn't come from the pineapple juice itself, but it may well have been held in solution from your main ingredient and then coalesced around any particles in the pineapple juice (in just the same way as the "frogspawn" problem we had on here a while ago). If it coalesces into tiny pectin particles, you get a haze. You can ignore it, as it's completely harmless. That's the easiest thing to do. The only other method is to stir in two level teaspoons (one heaped teaspoon) of a pectin-destroying enzyme such as Pectolase per gallon of wine, give it all a gentle stir and then leave it in a cool place for a couple of weeks before racking.

If you've done all of that and ended up with a wine with no yeast in it at all and one which is crystal clear, then you have reached stability. Only at that point, when there is no risk of a restarted fermentation, can you add any sugar to sweeten the wine.

Don't let all this dishearten you - you're just one of the unlucky ones who hit problems on their first attempt. It doesn't usually happen, and I'd bet your second wine will be problem-free.

Mike

[fenris]

thankyou for the replies, particularly MKG for the very thorough reply.

i blame google for telling me to use pineapple juice, next time i will come here and ask you guys.

i think i will get some campden tablets because i'm bored of waiting for it to do it's thing. i would like to know though, if i can stop it fermenting is the resulting wine likely to taste funny having been sat on the yeasty sludge for so long? is it worth bothering with?

oh another question! i have some mead on the go as well, it's been sat in a demijohn for at least a month and a half (i really should label them with dates!) and is STILL bubbling away happily! i guess with all that honey it might take a little longer to stop. i assume i shouldnt rack it until it starts to clear, when should i expect it to calm down? i don't really know what to expect as you can see

[becks77]

I'm just drinking the mead (not right now) I made last SEPT it took a long time to settle and didn't really clear well even after racking twice and adding Kwik clear still tasted nice though, but I used cheap honey and although it was clear honey wasobviously not the best
Best of luck
Becks

[MKG]

Well, you can tell immediately if the dead yeast has tainted your wine by tasting it. As it's so young, it may not taste very nice - but the taste you'll be looking for is a meaty, Marmite-y flavour. If it's there, then the yeast has affected it. I don't think you'll detect it after only one month, though (and even if it is there, not everyone thinks it unpleasant and, once again, it's completely harmless).

As for your mead ...

Yeast finds it very difficult to ferment honey directly - it CAN take up to a year to ferment it all out. If you added yeast nutrient and some form of citric acid when you made it, that'll speed it up - but it can still take appreciably longer than wine. So, don't panic. One thing to watch out for, though. If you do manage to ferment the mead to complete dryness, it'll taste bloody awful. Luckily, that rarely happens.

Mike

[fenris]

well i had a taste as i was curious. tastes very dry but no hint of meaty marmiteyness, definitely wine-y though! gonna get the campden tablets and hopefully it will end up drinkable.

i shall be patient with the mead, then.

next i think i will try blackberry, since it's that time of year...

thanks very much for replying!

[frozenthunderbolt]

Hey mike, do you know what causes mousey flavor - i have an inkling it is unfinished malo- ferment am i right?

[MKG]

Hi FTB

Here you go ...

http://www.aromadictionary.com/articles ... ticle.html

... and the most common cause amongst home winemakers is what I'm forever blathering on about - trusting to wild yeasts for fermentation. Also, lack of adequate cleanliness can do it, but as anal insistence upon complete hygiene when, in fact, your aim is to infect a liquid with a microbiological agent is another of my bugbears, I'll keep my mouth shut.

But you're correct in what you say about malo-lactic ferments which, by definition, increase the amount of lactic acid in a wine (which is exactly what lactobacteria do). Just allowing the ML ferment to complete, though, and also allowing a little bit of maturation, normally cures that one. The difference is that an ML ferment is a purely chemical reaction with predictable results - a lactobacter infection does what it wants to for as long as it can.

Do I detect that a certain NZ resident has ended up with a mousey wine?

Mike

EDIT: What I REALLY would like to know is how people ever knew what mouse urine tastes like.

[frozenthunderbolt]

Ah, Poo - it is a kiwifruit (Chinese gooseberry to you) and pear melomel hence why i thought malo - lots of malic acid in pears.
I had the same problem in a cider once, left a year and it came out beautiful and just slightly sparkling. Im REALY hoping it happens again :-)
I've had ropiness once in my early winemaking carrear and that other malo ferment but aside from that ive never had a problem.
I boil damn near everything.
And add proper yeasts *sigh*
Once you have smelt mouse piss you can taste it your mouth just like with any smell.