Is Fair Trade fair?

[Mahatma]

Today I've been told that Fair Trade isn't as fair as I might think. Apparently it's been well documented on TV but I don't own one. Is there any truth behind this?

[silver8]

Cannot say that ive seen any tv coverage. There are certain things I will only buy fair trade.Top of the list is bananas because unfair trade ones are simply criminal as well as coffee and tea.
But like all brands I do think you have to be selective. Fair trade ice cream all the way from California? And fair trade flowers from Kenya produced by a large company who are still depriving the area of much needed water?

[Shirley]

I've read something about this recently - but can't remember where... I will see if I can find it again.

It mentioned something about bigger companies getting in on the Fairtrade deal... I guess things like Nestle having a fair trade coffee don't sit well with many folk.

[PurpleDragon]

... I guess things like Nestle having a fair trade coffee don't sit well with many folk.

They do? How the heck did they manage that?

[Mahatma]

Good points.. although I think the people who told me were just looking to de-legitamise something aiming to do a good thing siimply for the sake of it with no real basis for critisism.

[Andy Hamilton]

I once heard a critism about fair trade which went - If a village that has mostly workers who are treated poorly by their employer has a small population of fair trade workers living in it then this is unfair to the poorly paid workers as it creates divisions within the community.

This is a weak argument as far as I can see - it is like saying there are some people who get hit in the face and other that don't so really everyone should be to make it fair. What rubbish.

[red]

it's never clear cut though is it

There was a thing on the news today about cheap clothing sold at T***o and asda - and the poor conditions of the workers that make these clothes overseas. and the conditions do sound bad yes. but if everyone stopped buying these clothes.. will it be T***o that gets hurt? or the suppliers? or the workers?
like I said.. its not clear cut.

[the.fee.fairy]

Also...along the cheap clothing line, i was sceptical of cheap clothing, and always sourced stuff in different places.

Until i went to China, and India.

In the west, here we say 'how can they live on 50p a day! How can we pay them such ridiculous wages!' However, 50p a day is more than enough for the families involved in the work.

That's when i start to question fair traid. Do we take these families and pay them more, proclaiming 'we are the bearers of riches, take them and be happy...but do everything we say in the process' or do we continue as we are, and allow the people to live their own poor, happy way?

[wulf]

Perhaps more than enough until someone gets sick or injured and there's a medical bill to pay. Perhaps more than enough until they want to take a few days off work and go on holiday to visit relatives somewhere else. Perhaps more than enough until you compare the houses they live in with the mansions owned by the middlemen in the trade equation.

While I am very suspect about some operations with a Fairtrade mark (such as Nestle who, every time I check, are still being naughty about babymilk) I think it is generally worthwhile to make the Fairtrade choice and give the producers enough income to feed themselves rather than just to buy food for the day.

Wulf

[Muddypause]

Do we take these families and pay them more, proclaiming 'we are the bearers of riches, take them and be happy...but do everything we say in the process' or do we continue as we are, and allow the people to live their own poor, happy way?

Gad! I can't let that one go. I've tried, really I have.

Your use of the word 'allow' implies that they have an option. One day, the wealthy parts of the world are gonna have to face the fact that we are so well off largely at the expense of the poor parts.

To excuse ourselves by suggesting that they are happy this way is very convienient for us; none the less it is a form of exploitation we should be ashamed of.

We have them on the hook of capitalism, and seem delighted to reel them in to our own advantage.

[DaisyDaisy]

another aspect of Fair Trade beyond fair pay is the one of health and safety at work - we tend to take it for granted that we won't be exposed at work in the UK to bare electrical flexes, unsafe practises (such as pouring molten metal into molds which are between bare feet), poor lighting, long hours.... the list goes on - I am aware of at least one company that is helping the producers (i.e. doing more than simply demanding it) bring the working conditions up to a standard demanded for UK workers, and I am sure there are others. These organisations should, I feel, be applauded and supported, maybe at a cost to the consumer, and the saving forfeited surely is worth it.

[pskipper]

Obviously not buying the goods is not the way to go, the issue often seems to be working conditions etc, surely it would be better to push for the supermarkets (as it was in the most recent news story) and other companies to promote safer working and to provide paid sick leave and holidays, the kinds of things which are taken for granted here.

However as came up on the friday debate on radio 2, this sort of work is the start of an economic build up, south korea has moved from a third world country to an industrialised one in the last 10 years going through this sweat shop phase. As well as employee rights we should also be campaigning for the companies who are using these factories to learn from the mistakes we've made and help the companies in India and the like to develop using environmentally friendly technologies.

[Ranter]

To explain the Nestle thing: they have ONE product, out of their vast range, which carries the UK Fairtrade Foundation mark (Partners coffee I think). If, like me, you choose to boycott Nestle products because of the company's babymilk activities, then boycott this product too.

[hedgewizard]

The problem with Fair Trade, as I understand it, is that some commentators allege that most of the premium you pay at the shop disappears into the pockets of the supply chain - mostly the retailer itself, which will happily charge 50p extra on a product costing only 10p more. There have also been serious questions raised about just how "fair" the trade is, since the scheme is not properly regulated or inspected.

Another problem with fair trade is that in a market where there is only one welfare standard it's likely that customer pressure can alter that standard - as with MacD's now only buying from non-battery producers. If you have fair trade branding coming in, ethically-concerned customers can agree to pay more for "fair coffee", thus salving their conscience and taking the ethical pressure off the rest of the market. No wonder Kraft and Nestle were so keen to get a product on board!

In summary, if you care about the plight of coffee growers, then just buy the coffee you like to drink* and make an annual donation to a development charity that works where your coffee comes from. Simple, no?

*As long as it isn't Nestle - right, kids?

[the.fee.fairy]

I know you tried Muddy, i couls hear the gnashing of teeth from here...

See now, i had the same thoughts as everyone else, really i did, until i visited the people.
I understand fully that the chinese are told what to do and waht to say by the government, and they have little to no knowledge outside of what their government has told them is right, bt i'd go and live there, on the average wage!!

Surely, instead of complaining at me for having a different opinion, it should be time to stop judging ourselves and each other by what we know, and have been conditioned to compare outselves to.

Yes, compare the houses to the 'mansions' the middlemen live in. If you're talking about coveted chinese houses, go see the Hutong. These are the most expensive houses in Beijing.

Whilst i will buy fair trade, and ethical goods, i will not restrict myself to them. I do believe that for being ethincal, a lot of premium is put on produce (be it vegetables, meat, clothes or kitchenware) by the supermarkets, the shops and anywhere else selling the stuff, just because it carries the 'fair trade' label.

However, as has been pointed out - Nestle have fair trade products (i'm sure there was more than 0ne last time i looked, but i might be wrong) and to call any of their practices fair seems dubious, of not a downright lie.

So, i guess, in my sleep deprived rather addled brain, what i'm trying to say is that i don#t believe in fair trade. If nestle can get a fair trade logo, then that's enough for me to turn my back on fair trade completely. Its a bit like the day i went to the shop and saw organic apples sitting ina polystyrene tray with plastic wrapped on the top, whilst the non organic were out in the open. That made me think long and hard about buying irganic in that shop again.

Anyway, i'll stop rambling and go to bed now. seems like a good idea...