4x4s?!

[ina]

I like your daughter - she's obviously been well taught!

Yes, you are right, the best is to start with the kids. Our family never had a car, but I think any of us would have been terribly embarrassed to be seen dropped off by our parents, as it would have meant that we'd missed our bus or train, and that we couldn't even manage to get to school on time without an adult's assistance. Kid's attitude seems to have changed since my time. (Oh dear, do I feel old all of a sudden...)

Ina

[diver]

I think this is a difficult issue. I drive an old car and/or ride my bike. My car is scratched and usedas a method of transport rather than as a status symbol or as an add-on to my personality. I get teased about my car because its so dirty and old...but I use it to carry compost etc. I tell people that I already have a personality and don't need to buy a four wheeled version. I did this and drove this same car in the same way even when before I gave up my big posh CEO's job. However my partner now has a 4x4....he justifies this because he is a diving instructor and we both carry a lot of kit..but he could carry it just as well in an old van. He enjoys having it because he enjoys "posing" like many 4x4 drivers. I just think it's stupid to be so influenced by advertising and daft tv programmes that glorify speed, newness and size....and of course the latest model.....I would put the road tax of all luxury cars up to over £1000 but I don't expect that would stop them and some people do need them for work/ hobbies

[Wombat]

Points well made Diver! Good on you!

Nev

[Muddypause]

I didn't join in with this thread when it was current because, although I think the need for these vehicles on the roads is limited, and I do think that many designers have deliberately worked up the intimidation factor in how they look, I don't think that banning them would be the right approach. I do, however, think there is a case for marginalising them to where they are appropriate.

So it was in this spirit that I have just posted to the Advertising Standards Authority. I thought you might be interested in the text. No idea if they will be able to do anything, but I bet I'm not the only one complaining about this:


"I am most concerned about the current series of television adverts for the Nissan Navara.

The adverts seem intended to foster the notion that a driver of a particular vehicle will naturally deserve more respect than others. They carry the strapline "It gets respect", whilst portraying a vehicle with blacked out windows variously causing people to move out of its way, yield to it, and generally behave in a submissive way towards it. There is often an underlying perception of threat.

Anyone driving in such a manner is breaching various requirements of the Highway Code, which demands that drivers must not "drive without reasonable consideration for other road users" and asks "Be careful of and considerate towards other road users." Nowhere does it imply that you are entitled to expect respect. It also seems to contradict the generally perceived cultural norms of road use, where safety and courtesy are primary considerations.

Instead, the adverts seem deliberately intended, overtly or otherwise, to inspire an attitude of intimidation, domination and power over other road users.

No one should be encouraged to believe that their vehicle can be used to successfully intimidate others, or make them worthy of particular road manners in favour of others, or that they merit more respect than other road users, especially when 'respect' in this context clearly implies superiority and control.

To advertise a vehicle with these promises is misleading and seems nothing less than irresponsible."

[Wombat]

Well done Stew!

Makes sense to me......

Nev

[Millymollymandy]

Good for you, wish there were more people like me who don't get taken in by advertising, but just watch ads thinking 'what a load of rubbish'.

Ina will be pleased - mind you, with all those wallabies on the loose in Scotland you need roo bars these days there!

[Wombat]

Bloody Wallabies!

They're a menace!

Nev

[ina]

Stew, that's great - I totally agree. A lot of cars look a bit like miniature tanks nowadays, it's even worse if the drivers sit so high you can hardly see them (and must suspect they can't see you, either) - and blacked-out windows should be a thing of the past, with all those anti-terror measures being taken! But to actually take that as a selling point is quite unacceptable for me. (I've not seen the ad, not having a telly.)

And the likelyhood to meet a sheep or a deer on the road in Scotland is still greater than meeting a wallaby... Nev, what about wombats and traffic?

Ina

[Wombat]

Alas Ina,

Wombats and traffic don't mix, but at least as we vanish under your wheels we have the satisfaction of knowing the damage we will do to your car when you hit us!

Nev

[greenbean]

I have been such a coward so far and just watched the 4x4 debate! I am the owner of a landrover. I do live on the edge of a town and 'hands up' it is not a necessity. However, we do go 'off road' sometimes when getting to do some particularly out of the way hill-walking and being in hilly wet scotland, it really can be a comfort, my in-laws live out in the country and often in winter the roads are bad, I do feel safer driving a 4 wheel drive in bad whether.

[ina]

Mmmh, maybe we'll let you off just this once.... Provided you don't have blacked-out windows, of course! And you don't take the Landrover just to post a letter in the box 100 yards down the road, knocking over an innocent cyclist on the way!!!

Ina

[Shirley]

I've got a non 4x4 - but actually will need to get a 4 x 4 of sorts as my little gas guzzling car (that suited me perfectly when I lived in Brighton as I didn't use it that often) is now too expensive to run and is suffering because of the road conditions here.

Now we live in the countryside my car is not doing as many miles to the gallon as I need it to - it's a 12 mile round trip to school in the morning and 12 miles again in the evening... and that's just to get one child to school... I then have to do a 24 mile round trip to get my youngest to nursery twice a week... those are compulsory miles that I can't change. I do try to avoid unnecessary trips though, so I take my recycling along with me to school and use the bins at the local shop, and shopping tends to be a tag-along to a school/nursery run too. Out here in the sticks we also tend to ask our neighbour if they want to come along shopping too - thus sharing the car and reducing the impact.

The roads around here are ok in the summer in a normal car, but not so good in the winter months... lots of mud and water and ice and snow (soon no doubt as I can see Morvern has a covering this morning after last night's storm) - mind you, it won't be a gas guzzler so much - it will be more economical than my current car which does a measly 200 miles (on a good day) to a tankful of petrol.

I agree that some of the big modern 4x4 cars ARE intimidating, and not just to other road users. I would as soon get behind the wheel of one of those than an army tank! I want a nice little swb landrover that you can fix yourself - an older model because I can't afford a new one. Not classy, but rather classless - which is how we should see people too don't you think. We are all the same as each other no matter what car we drive; salary we earn; job we do etc.

One last thing though - I remember seeing on Top Gear that they reckoned that kids were less likely to suffer head injury if they were hit by a 4x4 because of the way the head hit the bonnet rather than the window... how much difference that really makes when hit by a massive motor I don't know... but thought I should mention it anyway :D

Shirlz

[Wombat]

My brother used to drive an old series 2A land rover - mmmmmmmmm! now that was a real 4x4 - not these sissy things they call 4x4s today! But, yes there are too many of these big hulking things around today, here as elswhere. I suppose evolution will take care of them as the fuel prices get higher.

Nev

[SUPEwoman]

Their owners think having one is a way of showing how high their social status is; the rest of us know it is a way of showing they are pratts! (sorry if you are an urban 4x4 driver!).

Personally I would be embarrassed to drive one!

I agree. I'd be embarrassed that I was seen to have been brainwashed by advertising, status & needing to "keep up with the Jones's".

I was brought up in a farming village & the only 4X4's were the farm land-rovers. The proper ones, old, muddy, practical & full of sacks of corn, hay-bales, livestock & drooling dogs. This is what they're for!

Fast forward to the noughties & these new-style ugly vehicles have replaced the Ford Escort as a status symbol. In my opinion there's no place for them in towns & cities & on modern housing estates.

In my local town there is so much new housing being thrown up - all 4 & 5 bedroom, double garaged "executive" homes & it seems each house has a trendy exec car for dad & a 4X4 for mum & the brats. What do these people do for a living? Our major local industries (& main employers) of coal mining & knitwear manufacture have all shut down & gone. These people must have one mega big debt & all to show how "successful" they are

Last year I had an unhappy 6 months working at the out-of-town head office of a big car dealership & the number of Range Rovers parked side by side in the car park all day was sickening. Staff travelling in from the local town on the bus often arrived at work after 9am (usually due to heavy traffic) & were in trouble for being late. No flexible working there, no encouragement to use other means of transport, no cycle parking facilities.

In reading through the other posts it seems that there's a certain mentality found in arrogant & inconsiderate drivers & these are the ones most likely to be sat in a 4X4. I too have cursed on a country lane, in the ditch or on the verge, making way for a 4X4 insisting on remaining on the tarmac!

In this day & age cars should be smaller & more economical. The roads are crowded (who can get out of 2nd gear in the city?), the atmosphere polluted & fuel is expensive. Didn't I read somewhere that vehicles can be run on vegetable oil? That old chip fat can be recycled to use?

As to poor parking, take a look at this website & scroll down to the photos!

www.iparklikeanidiot.com

[ina]

Yes, up here out in the middle of nowhere a landrover is quite useful. If the winter really gets as bad as it is meant to be, there'll be a few days when I can't get off the site in my little car. Had that problem two years ago - just when I really needed to get to the airport very suddenly, because my father was in hospital. Fortunately I have friends with (farm-) landrover for emergencies like these.

Shirlz, is there no school bus where you live? I thought they were supposed to pick up everybody who lives more than two miles from the nearest school? They do come here for the kids (4 miles from primary school). Usually the school bus routes get cleared first, too, so it's good to have children of school age around!

Ina