The Last Straw

[ina]

A new generation of biofuels turns out to be another environmental disaster

By George Monbiot. Published in the Guardian 12th February 2008

Now they might start sitting up. They wouldn’t listen to the environmentalists or even the geologists. Can governments ignore the capitalists?



http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2008/02 ... #more-1102

[Martin]

there's a four-letter word that no government will grasp - LESS - what the world needs is less of damn near everything - births, transport, development, flights, expansion...........
All the time they continue propping up the frail house of cards which is global capitalism "the sums still work", at least to some extent - the longer we leave taking action, the faster we'll be going when we hit the buffers, and the more it will hurt!
Other threads on this forum illustrate how even feed prices can augur disaster for decent, natural ways of life........as fuel prices climb inexorably
(as they will) this is what will happen across the board - everything will become more expensive, and we will all face hard choices (heat or eat?)
What is also conveniently forgotten is that traditionally, society is "3 meals away from anarchy" - does anyone contemplate what WILL happen when the power supplies fail, and major cities run out of food for a few days???? - duck the flying wreckage job!
We're sleepwalking into ecological armaggedon

[QuakerBear]

Oh Martin, you articulate all my very worst fears. I'm really worried about what may be coming, so to ease my worry I propose a topic on how to prepare should everything go wrong. Perhaps in the 101 section?

1. Keeping it simple, so we can develop from here: Grow some of your own veggies.

[ina]

Actually, I think we here on Ish are better prepared than the average of the population! I'm not afraid - it's a challenge.

[Smooth Hound]

Yes preperation is he key, BE READY,

[QuakerBear]

It's may be fine for those who are 'prepared' but we don't live in a vacume (how do you spell that word that also means the carpet sucky machine?) and nor should we try to. So if the worst does happen, our resources won't be just for us as we'll be sharing with those around us.

[ina]

So if the worst does happen, our resources won't be just for us as we'll be sharing with those around us.

Oy - no way am I going to share my jam with those others!

It's vacuum, btw.

[hamster]

I agree with you, Quakerbear. It's all very well saying 'save yourselves!' but (quite aside from the fact that I think the apocalypse will actually be quite boring) there are always people who can't. In an everyone-for-themselves bunker mentality, the first people to get left behind are always the most vulnerable: the elderly, the disabled, the poorest...

Aside from that, even if I hoard baked beans and barricade myself in my house, what happens when my food runs out? If I grow all my own and have a bad year, what happens then? Even if there is some big, sudden crisis (which I doubt - at least on an energy depletion level, I accept that there might be a climate change-induced catastrophe which comes out of the blue) and we all go feral and start shooting each other and looting shops, there will still be a long, boring process of reconstructing some kind of society afterwards.

I think the approach of the Transition Towns movement is really good - the government isn't going to lead the way, so we'll just have to do it ourselves. Relocalising food supply, learning essential skills from the older generation before it's too late, changing energy use, transport networks etc. Of course preparing on an individual level makes sense, but we're still in the very fortunate position of being able to manage this change because we know it's coming, and we need to manage it on a community level too.

After all, a very good way of making sure we don't get hacked to death by an angry mob with pitchforks who want to raid our vegetable gardens is to try and pre-empt the angry mobs by going out there and giving them some seeds and a few words of advice before we hit the crunch-point....

[ina]

If I grow all my own and have a bad year, what happens then?

That's what people coped with for millennia...

I think the approach of the Transition Towns movement is really good - the government isn't going to lead the way, so we'll just have to do it ourselves. Relocalising food supply, learning essential skills from the older generation before it's too late, changing energy use, transport networks etc. ... After all, a very good way of making sure we don't get hacked to death by an angry mob with pitchforks who want to raid our vegetable gardens is to try and pre-empt the angry mobs by going out there and giving them some seeds and a few words of advice before we hit the crunch-point....

Very sensible! I fully agree.

[Smooth Hound]

I agree with both of the above posts, and that is what i mean by being prepared, learn as much as you can, and teach others what you know, learn how to make your own energy. but concidering that you cant put anything down without it going missing at present , and people in this country arent going hungry yet, 99 % of people in this country are not willing to even concider that there is anything to prepare for. alot of people just take and take, for example if you were to be dishing seeds out , then i presume you would need something back, but 99 % of the time that wouldnt happen, they would just see you as a soft touch and take the lot, i am sorry but i dont have such a positive opinion of most folk as you . i wish i did, but i am a realist, not an idealist. My no one priority will be my family and myself in order to look after my family. every thing else will be second. and realistically when the time comes you would be wise to do the same, for your families sake. but in the mean time i am actively trying to prepare people to look towards slfsufficiency,

[Martin]

sadly, I agree with Smoothhound - I'm lucky to live out in the sticks, with some really smashing neighbours - there still exists a certain cameraderie where we will all turn out to help each other - after some climate event, or the big switch off, I can certainly envisage that continuing, BUT, being realistic, we are a few miles from a town that contains some dreadful "sink estates" where you dare not roam alone in daylight NOW..........
There are murders whereby people are left to die on the pavement following beatings after marital bust-ups - I fear that offering them a few seeds, and advice on how to use them may be literally fatal
Unfortunately, once they've emptied the supermarkets of cook/chill food, and probably jettisoned any fresh food they'll head out to the sticks......it leaves me with the very sad realisation that under those circumstances I'd have to fight to preserve what I and my family and neighbours had put by for such eventualities - would I pull the trigger? - I'm afraid so!
This is one of the most frightening aspects of what we face - the veneer of civilisation is very thin (3 meals from anarchy) - and society is now so mollycoddled and spoon fed that it will take very little for mayhem to break out (witness New Orleans).........

[hamster]

Well, yeah, I wasn't going to just stand on a corner and hand out seeds.

And, yes, 'when the time comes' or 'under those circumstances' then of course I'd put me and mine first, I'm only human.

I just think that there is an awful lot we can do in the mean time to prevent that happening.

[Martin]

I know it sounds like total despair, but WHAT can we do for the vast majority of even the supposed educated people who cannot or will not grasp the enormity of what we face?
"Energy saving lightbulbs? - ooh no, they don't reach full brightness instantly
"Of course I'm flying for my holiday, I only get a fortnight......"
"My kids, walk to school?????................,"
"Work from home rather than commute?" - "I'd be lonely........"
etc, etc, etc

[justskint]

When you refer to "sink estates" and not being able to roam during daylight hours, to which towns are you refering. Hastings perhaps? I feel at one with the lumpen nuckle grazers, I know in my hour of need my imediate neighbour will be there for me, a bunch of fives and a few expletives. Look on the bright side, they will not have a clue how to recognise a root vegetable in the ground, just make sure they don't see you digging it up.



Politicians, council officials, people with money have it sussed, they have their bolt-holes at the ready, vaccines, food, armed gaurds ect. Forewarned and forearmed with surveillance information, paid for by us!!

[Martin]

fair comment!
I thought someone would berate me for elitism, snobbery etc. I too loathe the whole idea of "sink estates", and do accept that they also contain some downright good, decent people - and would like to see the damned things bulldozed to be replaced with decent housing, which I'm convinced would do a great deal to heal the social problems in such areas.
As to which town I'm referring to, I'm keeping stuhm - (but it is reputedly the place that gave birth to the present usage of "chav")