My soil is just really really CLAY!!!!

[Carolinamandolina]

Hey all, I just got a job growing organic vegetables (yeah I know, awesome isnt it!). Trouble is that the soil is very heavy clay. Its a new allotment so I am in the process of double digging beds out of the existing lawn.

I've been asking lots of people and consulting my bible (John Seymour - The New Self Sufficient Gardener) and everyone seems to think that all I could probably grow is potatoes. But - thats not an option! I'm getting paid to grow veggies and if all I can deliver at harvest time is spuds then my boss is likely to be pretty disappointed and will probably give up the whole idea (you know what these non gardeners are like!)

So today I dug three bags of sand into one of the beds (its about 2m by 5m). I'm gonna put a load of compost on it and hope for the best - do you think I'll be able to grow much?

What do you think is likely to grow in the other beds? (I've run out of sand now!) I'm gonna try lettuces and leeks.

Its not too bad actually because I do have another plot with raised beds so I'm gonna try growing all the difficult stuff there.

Also - when you're digging a deep bed out of a lawn is it a good idea to bury the turf or should I just throw it all to the side and make loam out of it? I started double digging a deep bed and got halfway through before realising that the buried turf will stop the roots getting down to the loosened soil at the bottom. But - John says that if you don't bury the turf you are seriously robbing the bed of nutrients. So which is the best option?

Also - sorry this post is getting a bit long - is it a good idea to sheet mulch a no-dig bed on a lawn then try and grow things in it? Someone told me the grass will take a couple of years to break down so I probably won't get much of a crop. Maybe potatoes will be ok?

Anyway I'm quite new to all this - I've had gardens before but they were always too shady to grow much. So any advice will be much appreciated. Thanks!!!!

Caroline

[Green Aura]

I don't think you can grow much in grass - the roots would just strangle anything you put in.

If you can do without that for a year, take off the grass sods, double dig but put the grass back in the bottom, upside down, with cardboard over the top. Then backfill with your two spades depth of soil. You can plant in it straight away then - if you can break the
clay up sufficiently and mix with compost. If not as I said it's a year and the weather will do the work for you.

You can buy a product called claybreaker - I've seen it in garden centres, but I've no idea how quickly it works.

One thing that might be worth considering is the hole method we used in our polytunnel last year. Our soil was under turf - when we removed it we found solid rubble held together with bits of soil! We couldn't afford enough compost to fill a 15'x4' bed after removing all the stones, concrete etc so we dug enough holes to plant our tomatoes, got rid of the rubble and filled them up with the remaining soil and compost. We only used 2 bags of compost instead of about twenty

This year, when I dug over the bed to start planting I found that the tomato roots had broken up all the rest of the soil and getting the rubble out was really easy - I dug it over myself in about half an hour and I'm not particularly fit

[Annpan]

What about raised beds and shallow rooted plants? remove the turf, fork over the bed, add a few inches of compost plant some peas, lettuces, and brassicas... Bob is your proverbial uncle.

Have one bed which is just manure and grow squashes, pumkins etc in it.


I have recently been reading a book about 'no dig' gardening and the rule is you really, you shouldn't dig if you don't need to as it destroys the structure of the ground. Roots of plants should do a fine job of breaking it up. In my garden 4-8" is a good loam and under that is solid clay, apart from the potatoes I have just avoided breaking into the clay but this year, in previously planted beds, I can get more than a spades depth down before hitting the clay so I reckon the worms and roots are doing their job.

[Carolinamandolina]

Cheers - I'll try the hole full of manure idea.

Annpan - so you're saying I shouldn't put the turf back in the bed?

I'll do a no-dig bed - what do you think is best to grow in it bearing in mind that I need to get a crop this year?

[Annpan]

Cheers - I'll try the hole full of manure idea.

Annpan - so you're saying I shouldn't put the turf back in the bed?

I'll do a no-dig bed - what do you think is best to grow in it bearing in mind that I need to get a crop this year?

If you are going to top the bed with compost then the loss of turf isn't going to be an issue (as you will be using it to create compost for next year)

As I say what I would do is - remove the turf, fork over the ground add 3 or 4 inches of compost and plant a few rows of peas with lettuce and other salad leaves in between.

Clay should be very rich in nutrients so thats a good thing.



I am no expert and I'll check up in my book but I don't see why you should break your back double digging when it isn't going to do the ground, your time or your muscles any favours, and you might not get any bigger a crop from it.

[Carolinamandolina]

Awesome, will do that. Cheers!

[Flo]

It's a long time that it will take to improve the clay that you have but it can be done though not instantly. Don't knock it as you can grow beetroot (not is the time to plant) and onions (too late this year) just fine. With a little bit of compost to start off the seeds (just a smear for planting in) you can start off your beetroot and there is swede and turnip too.

The next thing to do is to start your own compost heap - then there is loads of good advice here. I recommend that you scrounge grass cuttings, vegetable peelings and other home compostable items from anywhere you can. But you will need brown stuff to ensure that the grass cuttings don't go slimy and therefore you should be looking to see if anyone in the area keeps pigeons or chickens so that you can get few bags when they clear out to mix in. Otherwise you are looking at crumpling up lots of newspaper and ripping up cardboard boxes.

The advantage of building a loose compost heap as I have done (not in a container of any sorts) is that I can grow marrows, courgettes and cucumbers on it as I have a sunny sheltered corner where I have built it. Then at the end of the season you have stuff (the plants) to start a new heap with and some compost to use to dig into your beds. I cover it in plastic in winter to keep it warm and stop it getting to wet then leave it open to the elements in spring and summer.

[Annpan]

I consulted the no-dig book and yes, he basically states that if you think you need to dig your ground to break it up you are much mistaken and that roots and worms do the work for you. He recommends a 15cm covering of compost added.

I'm not saying that this is the way to go, I think it as A solution to the problem, not THE solution.


And I am still planting out onion sets up here, so I don't think your too late for them In fact, in perth your probably bang on time for most things, but remember our growing season is shorter up here.


ETA sorry, not perth, Stirling

[Enormous Sage]

I've got heavy clay soil and leeks & lettuces worked very well.

Only problem is that slugs & snails seem to be rife, which I think is because the clay soil stays damp for longer and is a better environment for them to thrive.
I covered the lettuces up with cloches made from plastic bottles, which seemed to protect them nicely.

[craig.r]

I got my clay plot last year, it is right next to a canel. Potatoes did ok, onions did well. I got one carrot out of 6 rows .this year my onions, broad beans and garlic are all doing well. i also have fruit trees and bushes which all look like they will have a bumper crop I also have lots of slugs but as i am right next to the canel the fish get fed very well