Ducks and worms, mites, lice etc

[Millymollymandy]

I've been wondering if my ducks should be wormed, and if so, what do I do about the fact that they are pooping into a natural pond full of fish which overflows into a stream?

Also I have not treated their shed with any insecticide like I do in the chook shed, for the same reason.

What do people do?

[Millymollymandy]

Where are all the duck keepers?

[ina]

Off to the rare breeds sale at Thainstone to buy more ducks - at least the ones in this area! Wait til tonight, maybe Shirlz can help you. They really have gone to buy two more ducks...

[Millymollymandy]

Hmmm 49 viewings but not a single duck keeper can be bothered to reply, even to say yes or no, I do or do not worm my ducks but don't know about the pond question. Do you worm your ducks or not?

[Shirley]

WORMS

Cause. Ducks can be affected by any of the four types of worms that infest other domestic poultry roundworms (Ascaridia spp.); tapeworms; caecal worms (Heterakis spp.), and hairworms (Capillaria spp.).

Ages affected. All ages are affected, but older ducks have better resistance to worms than ducklings and generally show milder effects, if any. Young ducklings are particularly susceptible, and heavy worm infestations may kill them or stunt their growth.

Source of infection. The duck can become infested with worms by eating various insects, slugs or earthworms that may harbour stages of each parasite, or by eating worm eggs passed in the droppings of other birds. Worm eggs hatch in various sections of the gut. They reach maturity in 21&endash;100 days. During this period the immature stages can penetrate various organs. Some of the roundworm larvae can find their way into the bloodstream and thence to the liver or lungs, where they can cause damage.

Clinical signs. These vary enormously and will depend on the type of worms, degree of infestation and the age of the birds. Birds heavily infested with roundworms or hairworms may die suddenly. This often happens when large numbers of immature roundworms migrate through essential body organs .However birds more often do not die suddenly but develop poorly, become weak and eventually die. With heavy roundworm or hairworm infestation ducks almost always have a diarrhoea that can range from frothy yellow to blood-tinged. Occasionally they develop an unsteady gait and paralysis. With heavy tapeworm and caecal worm infestation ducks sometimes have diarrhoea, but often just show poor weight gain and a drop in egg production.

Diagnosis. The diagnosis can be made instantly if there are a large number of worms in the intestines at post-mortem. Alternatively, intestinal scrapings or samples from fresh droppings can be examined under a microscope.**A home test is to put fresh droppings in a jam jar add water...worms swim out...ugh!**

Treatment. There are two approaches to worm treatment: * the use of broad-spectrum chemicals that are effective against the major groups of worms * the use of narrow-spectrum chemicals that are effective against a particular type of worm A good broad-spectrum treatment can be achieved by the use of levamisole(sheep wormer). This chemical is effective against both mature and immature stages of roundworms, caecal worms and hairworms. For the treatment of roundworms exclusively, the various piperazine-based compounds are highly effective, provided the dose rate is adequate. If you need to treat caecal worms and tapeworms you can use phenothiazine and mansonil respectively. The drug dibutyltin-dilaurate is also effective against tapeworms, but it can cause a 10% drop in egg production.

Control and prevention. None of the chemicals mentioned earlier is effective against the egg stage of worms. Ducks run on deep litter or in open range will be reinfested unless husbandry and management procedures are directed towards prevention of reinfestation. You can achieve short-term prevention by repeating treatment of the whole flock after 2 weeks, 6 weeks and 3 months. Long-term solutions include various husbandry practices aimed at lowering the chance and degree of reinfestation. To minimise or prevent reinfestation with caecal worms, roundworms and hairworms, you should:

* rotate runs;* worm strategically at danger periods;* separate ducks of different age groups;* use reasonable stocking rates;* provide clean pens;

http://www.domestic-waterfowl.co.uk/page10.htm

Not sure about the use of these and the fish/pond/stream bit though.

[possum]

We don't worm ours and their previous owner did not worm them either, however ducks have not been kept on this land previously so that may help the lack of problem. Both appear healthy. (just given away another 3)

[Millymollymandy]

I shall have to ask elsewhere as I don't know how to physically worm them given they need a lot of water and dunk their whole heads in it. That would mean probably a whole bottle of wormer in one go and I don't know if it would be a good idea getting it all over them and in their eyes etc.

[Shirley]

Try contacting the domestic waterfowl trust - address as above. What they don't know probably doesn't need to be known

[camillitech]

hi milly,

i'm no expert but we've had ducks for years and we've never wormed ours.
i think it really depends on how much room they have, and it sounds like yours have plenty. if they have access to fresh running water, loads of space and a clean shed, i wouldn't bother filling them with chemicals however i have been accused of being an irresponsible hen keeper in the past .

good luck, paul

[Millymollymandy]

Thanks Paul. I do wonder sometimes because wild birds (and animals) manage all right without being wormed!

Your last comment made me giggle.

[fenwoman]

Thanks Paul. I do wonder sometimes because wild birds (and animals) manage all right without being wormed!

Your last comment made me giggle.

actually wild birds and animals die young compared to domestic birds, plus if a bird has a heavy worm burden they have less resistance to disease. Personally I would not eat eggs from a bird which had a heavy worm burden.
I would consider worming one of the bare minimums of animal husbandry.
have a look here for more info on worming.
http://www.callducks.net/worms.htm

[camillitech]

if i kept livestock in a concentration camp an enclosure or a grubby shed with lots of others then yes i would cover them in flea powder, shove drench, worming pills or whatever down their throats and throw them into baths of sheep dip as a matter of course. however if i had a few birds roaming wild and free or a few pigs in the wood (which i have) i would wait until i saw some sign of worm burden, fleas, ticks or whatever first. my seven year old boy sometimes gets head lice but i don't put flea powder on him beforehand just in case and right now he has 12 sheep ticks on him but i'm not going to dip him

however i am no expert on the subject of ducks or hens and unlike some people have not even read a book on them. what i do is seek the advice of people who have lived and farmed on this island for generations so who am i to be the first person on raasay to worm his his hens or ducks

with your amount of stock and your location henwoman your methods work very well for your regime. it's just not what i'm about, i'm not against your methods i'll just not use them unless i have to and i suspect milly feels the same which is why i gave her my advice. if i'm wrong milly i'll keep my mouth shut

ps our new weaners are called milly, molly, mandy, and morris


regards, paul

[fenwoman]

if i kept livestock in a concentration camp an enclosure or a grubby shed with lots of others then yes i would cover them in flea powder, shove drench, worming pills or whatever down their throats and throw them into baths of sheep dip as a matter of course. however if i had a few birds roaming wild and free or a few pigs in the wood (which i have) i would wait until i saw some sign of worm burden, fleas, ticks or whatever first. my seven year old boy sometimes gets head lice but i don't put flea powder on him beforehand just in case and right now he has 12 sheep ticks on him but i'm not going to dip him

With all due respect, that was a rather silly thing to say.None of my livestock or pets are kept in concentration camp conditions but they all get wormed regularly, especially as I know that you don't always see evidence of worms in dropping, especially with fowl . I don't see what sheep dip has to do with anything . As for delousing, no you don't delouse the birds unless you see lice on them but it is wise to add louse powder to the nestbox to prevent a problem happening or minimising the problem when it occurs. I take it that your 7 year old son doesn't live like an animal does, doesn't eat his food off the ground and gets kept clean? Chickens aren't humans, they scratch about in the soil. The same soil that they, and wild birds crap on. Now unless you are saying that your son eats his dinner straight off the floor and drinks out of the toilet, you simply cannot compare worming fowl with headlice on your son.

however i am no expert on the subject of ducks or hens and unlike some people have not even read a book on them.

hardly something to boast about is it?

what i do is seek the advice of people who have lived and farmed on this island for generations so who am i to be the first person on raasay to worm his his hens or ducks

so you have spoken to every single poultry keeper on the island?
Let me ask you a question. If most of the poultry keepers on your island made their hens drink creosote would you follow suit simply because everyone was doing it?
Have you heard the expression "the blind leading the blind"?
If all the other poultry keepers you know are poor husbandrymen and use bad practices, why not educate yourself and be the one to set a good example. Raise the level of care instead of being happy to lower your standards to the lowest common denominator.

I know several dog owners who don't treat their dogs for fleas and never worm them. Their dogs spend miserable weeks scratching and biting at the irritation and even going bald from the bites and have staring coats and ravenous appetites from worms (which also pose a danger to children). Should I follow suit? Not likely. My dogs get wormed every 3 months, have gloriously shiny coats and get treated for fleas regularly too.
If you are happy to feed your child hens eggs which may contain worm eggs, more power to you. Personally, I prefer my hens to have the best level of care that I can give them and any keeper of any kind of animal will tell you that parasite control is the most basic but important level of care.

[camillitech]

if i kept livestock in a concentration camp an enclosure or a grubby shed with lots of others then yes i would cover them in flea powder, shove drench, worming pills or whatever down their throats and throw them into baths of sheep dip as a matter of course. however if i had a few birds roaming wild and free or a few pigs in the wood (which i have) i would wait until i saw some sign of worm burden, fleas, ticks or whatever first. my seven year old boy sometimes gets head lice but i don't put flea powder on him beforehand just in case and right now he has 12 sheep ticks on him but i'm not going to dip him

With all due respect, that was a rather silly thing to say.None of my livestock or pets are kept in concentration camp conditions but they all get wormed regularly, especially as I know that you don't always see evidence of worms in dropping, especially with fowl . I don't see what sheep dip has to do with anything . As for delousing, no you don't delouse the birds unless you see lice on them but it is wise to add louse powder to the nestbox to prevent a problem happening or minimising the problem when it occurs. I take it that your 7 year old son doesn't live like an animal does, doesn't eat his food off the ground and gets kept clean? Chickens aren't humans, they scratch about in the soil. The same soil that they, and wild birds crap on. Now unless you are saying that your son eats his dinner straight off the floor and drinks out of the toilet, you simply cannot compare worming fowl with headlice on your son.

however i am no expert on the subject of ducks or hens and unlike some people have not even read a book on them.

hardly something to boast about is it?

what i do is seek the advice of people who have lived and farmed on this island for generations so who am i to be the first person on raasay to worm his his hens or ducks

so you have spoken to every single poultry keeper on the island?
Let me ask you a question. If most of the poultry keepers on your island made their hens drink creosote would you follow suit simply because everyone was doing it?
Have you heard the expression "the blind leading the blind"?
If all the other poultry keepers you know are poor husbandrymen and use bad practices, why not educate yourself and be the one to set a good example. Raise the level of care instead of being happy to lower your standards to the lowest common denominator.

I know several dog owners who don't treat their dogs for fleas and never worm them. Their dogs spend miserable weeks scratching and biting at the irritation and even going bald from the bites and have staring coats and ravenous appetites from worms (which also pose a danger to children). Should I follow suit? Not likely. My dogs get wormed every 3 months, have gloriously shiny coats and get treated for fleas regularly too.
If you are happy to feed your child hens eggs which may contain worm eggs, more power to you. Personally, I prefer my hens to have the best level of care that I can give them and any keeper of any kind of animal will tell you that parasite control is the most basic but important level of care.

well that's me well and truly put in my place (yet again) better just use that creoste i was saving on the fence then.

ps funny how you seem more upset by fleas on chickens than 12 ticks on a seven year old anyway for anyone who is interested we got them off with tea tree oil. not oxytetrawotsisname

lol paul

[fenwoman]

Why should I be interested in your 7 year old? I do understand that parents think that everyone should be interested children and their child in particular, but I'm afraid I have no interest in anyone's children. I'm one of those unnatural women who was never fond of children. I feel more comfortable with animals and when I visit my best friend a couple of times a week, apart from saying hello to her 4 kids I tend to spend more time with her large GSD and take him outside for a ball game. (I've never played with the children). Most people look after their children well and I am sure your child is well loved and cared for. However, the subject was about fowl, and worming in particular. My prime interest in life is animals, all animals, but poultry in particular. I run an advice line for animals in order to impart some of the knowledge I have and use the forums to do the same and gain knowledge.
It bothers me that fowl are often treated as not being worthy of being cared for properly. Perhaps because they cost so little. If people paid as much for their birds as some breeds of dogs, say £500 each, I bet they would be taking great care of them to ensure they didn't pop their clogs.
As an aside, it might be worth talking with some kind of health official about your son's sheep ticks as they carry a very nasty disease which could be serious in a small child.