Interesting News from Holland

[contadina]

Last year when the UK government advised the abolition of the "sell-by" date on food packaging it was welcomed by pretty much everyone including the FSA. The only dissenting voice was, surprise, surprise, from the British Retail Consortium, who insisted that the best way to reduce food waste is to educate consumers about the two basic terms - use-by and best-before. As this clearly hasn't worked in the past (5.3 million tonnes of still-edible food is thrown away each year, costing the average family £680 a year, according to the Waste and Resources Action Programme) then you really have to question the retail sector's motives.

The same thing happened when Labour suggested the abolition of "sell-by" dates and I suspect that neither government had either the desire or balls to stand up to the big supermarkets. I'm inclined to believe that the only way it will happen is through an EU directive, so a big thank you to the Dutch.

[oldjerry]

Boboff,I'm flattered,you've made an Angry Old Man very happy.

(still think T***o sucks mind).

[Thomzo]

Having worked for companies that supply the big supermarkets, I can tell you that the supermarkets do actually take use by dates etc seriously. They will test food samples on a regular basis to ensure that the bacteria count is within the acceptable range and set the use by dates accordingly. There is no profit in them setting this too soon as they would have to throw away unsold food which wouldn't be profitable for them.

The problem comes from people not understanding the different types of advice. Are kids taught about this sort of thing at school? I know that I wasn't. If the government is so concerned, why isn't there an advertising programme on TV telling us what's safe and what isn't.

Zoe

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Ummmm, who says they are against changes? How would it affect there profits? They stand to gain as much by reducing the amount they waste surely?

Nonetheless, supermarkets do benefit considerably from people buying stuff that they do not need and end up throwing away. Leaving aside the moral issue of food waste on a grand scale, the question of whether this is a net economic benefit should be addressed - supermarkets may pay a lot of tax, but they also expatriate a lot of their profits. Their business is so influential that all of their activities deserve critical evaluation, and based on their track record, starting from a cynical point of view is not inappropriate.

[oldjerry]

You're right of course Jon,but in a way I can see where Boboff is coming from,sure Supermarkets,ride roughshod over local planning law,local communities,local producers etc etc,but merely 'monstering' individual organizations,might feel good but masks the reality.If T***o ever imploded ala News International(please God) things wouldn't look much different.

All business that isn't local,retail or otherwise,backed by banks, pension schemes and the whole panoply of the state relies upon consumerism.And that's where most of us are coming from isn't it?

[boboff]

Education is the way forward definately.

Jerry get back to the Kitchen Sink!

[oldjerry]

Err akshully up at 5 this morning making Victoria sponge for daughter's charity cake school bash!

[Odsox]

I can tell you that the supermarkets do actually take use by dates etc seriously. They will test food samples on a regular basis to ensure that the bacteria count is within the acceptable range and set the use by dates accordingly.

Fair enough, but I would really like to know what bacteria is present in out of date salt and bottles of vinegar, to name just two unfathomables.
Others would include Marmite, Bovril, Worcester sauce, whole nutmeg, fish sauce, soy sauce, treacle, all cooking oils .....

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Err akshully up at 5 this morning making Victoria sponge for daughter's charity cake school bash!

Ooooh. What kind of jam?

[boboff]

I can tell you that the supermarkets do actually take use by dates etc seriously. They will test food samples on a regular basis to ensure that the bacteria count is within the acceptable range and set the use by dates accordingly.

Fair enough, but I would really like to know what bacteria is present in out of date salt and bottles of vinegar, to name just two unfathomables.
Others would include Marmite, Bovril, Worcester sauce, whole nutmeg, fish sauce, soy sauce, treacle, all cooking oils .....

Right, listen. Those items will say "best before" and a date.

Things which are "high Risk" i.e. contain bacteria unlikely to be killed in any further processing at home, have a "use by" it is this style of product which would contain bacteria that could cause harm.

Now do you see? The best before term which you read as "use by" does not mean Use By as after I will be unsafe, but means that the product has qualities of taste, appearance or aroma, which deteriorate, and in the manufacturers opinion you would best enjoy the product before that date, however if you choose to ignore his advise and use it when it's "past" it's best, thats fine with him too, but don't go thinking that if you don't enjoy it as much as you should you will be able to complain, as he has done his bit in advising you when the product was at it's best........

[Odsox]

Thanks for that Boboff, although my post was intended to be slightly tongue in cheek, you have succinctly described the differences between the two labels.
However , I still think that some labelling is arbitrary, for instance how can mined salt that is several million years old deteriorate in taste in two years in my larder ?

[boboff]

Well there are two things to consider.

1. It might go into a lump if it got damp.
2. They have to pick a date, and generally speaking the best before for things that don't go off is 24 months for Supermarkets, and 36 months for Independant retailers. I mentioned before Suppliers have to keep reference samples for testing, in case of complaint of each batch produced, and I suspect that it is this which limits the unlimited nature of the possibility of date.

As I recall one of the few items that doesn't need a best before is Honey, why that doesn't apply to Salt I don't know, probably not as well represented in Lobbying the EU at some point or another.

I wonder how long your tongue in cheek would keep in the fridge at 5c?

Wicked!

[Odsox]

The exemption also applies to wine of course, but that begs the question; why not vinegar then, especially wine vinegars ?

I wonder how long your tongue in cheek would keep in the fridge at 5c?

Wouldn't that be better posted on the Bovril thread ?

[123sologne]

Well I must say I do everything in reverse... I always look at things, sniff them and use them. Only if it looks or smells funny will I even look at any dates. And the only time I had food poisoning in the last 41 years is when I ate some shell fish in a restaurant...

[Thomzo]

I have a container of salt that doesn't have any date on it. It's probably so old that it was sold before the best by dates came in.

But there are products, like jam and marmite, that may be fine while they are sealed within their jars, but deteriorate quickly once opened.

Zoe